Why aren't you an Atheist? (page 26)

There are some atheists who are no less superstitious than theists. Some believe in fate, karma and reincarnation. Some trust homeopathy and visist chiropractors. Others read their horoscope and think there are such things as an honest fortune teller.

Atheism is not a specific term. That is why its frustrating when Outlaw can't get beyond reciting the dictionary.....Cofty

Good morning Cofty..

I`m aware there are going to be Atheists with different beliefs..

Such as fate,karma,horiscopes,fortune tellers..Ect..ect..

The Believers are no different..

With the exception that One group Believes in God..

The other Believes there is No God..

Niether can prove their case,they both have Faith they are right.

The dictionary does make it clear,Atheism is a specific term..

I wouldn`t have been able to look it up otherwise..

I`m confused as to why you find it frusterating..

That I can`t get past the information I`m presented..

What else is there?..

............................. ...OUTLAW

Outlaw, if you insist on asserting that atheism takes faith, in spite of everything an atheist tells you of how they view these things, then whatever. Define others and their experience under your terms, if you wish.

It's like saying it takes a lot of faith to believe that fairies aren't real. It's a silly thing to say, but I guess gods are just silly that way. They require that we lower the bar on how we define things.

I think I will spend the day asking everyone I meet to define themselves according to their relationship to fairies, and when they do, I will argue about what their perspective really is. I'll take notes. Should be fun. I'll tell them that their stance sure does take a lot of faith. When they tell me faith has nothing to do with it, but they are going with the evidence, I'll tell them what they really think.

Because that is pretty much how I take what is happening here.

King Solomon

Cofty said:

When I say there is no god or that theists are deluded please assume an unwritten, "subject to the infinitely small possibility of the future discovery of evidence to the contrary"

Yup.

And the problem with that approach is the theist will interpret that admission of uncertainty as a sign of WEAKNESS, saying , "well you really don't KNOW with certainty that....." to contrast with THEIR certainty that THEY are correct.

That's why I say that some prefer impossibilities offered with certainty, that realistic probables offered with an honest assessment of risk (however slight).

That phenomenon is demonstrated in this impromptu "debate" between Eric Hovind (son of Ken Hovind) and YT athiest Thunderf00t which occurred at the Reason Rally. The video is long, and Eric makes you want to pull your hair out by asking such mind-numbingly argumentative traps, such as asking, "Is a chemical reaction TRUE?" Huh?

Note early on how Eric just simply CANNOT wrap his head around the idea of "assumptions", where you HAVE to temporarily suspend knowing with any amount of certainty in order to proceed with a debate. Eric repeatedly chimes in with, "but you don't KNOW...." Well no spit, Sparlie: that's the whole POINT of assumptions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9BfsHsVGNg

I'm thinking many theists are confusing their assumptions with certainties, and hence cannot even comprehend that there ARE uncertainties which exist.

Ironically, they thus criticize scientists for THEIR expressions of uncertainty, since rationalists start from accepting ideas only as assumptions (AKA hypotheses) in order to test them, and only allow knowledge into the sacred Holiest of Holies of their belief system AFTER they've shown themselves to warrant admission by offering utility either via better fitting the raw data (i.e. being a better model) and offering greater predictive value. And once in, there is no guarantee or certainty: they can be modified or kicked out if evidence to the contrary arises.

There's got to be an analogy to the New System to be made, but, meh....

King Solomon

NC said:

It's like saying it takes a lot of faith to believe that fairies aren't real.

And THAT, in a nutshell, says it all.

King Solomon said

Even if you know it's false hope?

when do you think i would know if my hopes are false?

That would depend on how willing you were to dig deeper into the available evidence that has led many people before you to conclude that.

But change the wording slightly to make it a hypothetical: i.e., "even if you knew it was a false hope?"

Ucantnome

King Solomon

Do you know what my hope is?

OUTLAW

Good Morning NC..

I`m specificly talking about Religious Faith..

Gods..Deities..

Some people believe in them,Some don`t..

Neither can prove their case..

Some chose a side because it`s their best guess,they`re still open to options..

Others will go to great lengths to battle,defending their point of veiw because..

They have to be right..There are no options for them..

Those people have Faith that they are Right..

In one of your posts to me you say,your an Atheist but..

You leave the door open for other posibilitys..

That tells me..

You don`t have faith your 100% right and your open to discussion..

Your not in the "Extremist Groups" that I`m talking about..

(I should have been more Clear about that/Hindsight 20-20)

I Believe in the Beer Fairy and The Tequila Fairy..

I Have Pictures!

Why aren't you an Atheist?

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