Christ's 'silence' on slavery.

by tec 149 Replies latest jw friends

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Tec - you do realise that the definition of love is malleable? When you claim something is loving and something is not you are merely rehearsing your opinion rather than saying anything concrete. Let me give you an example. To you it is loving for your Christ to take part in a pre determined blood sacrifice that has involved millions (?) of preceding animal sacrifices akin to voodoo ( blood scattered around and wiped on things etc.) To me that 'loving' behaviour reminds me of the worst kinds of psychopathic human behaviour. My personal morality is appalled at a god who requires love of himself, who preaches the golden rule but doesn't live it, who takes the role of judge but is utterly unaccountable itself, who is atrocious at clear communication and requires faith ( blind obedience ) , who is displeased with the results of a garden fruit transgression such that he curses the earth and women for it such that childbirth is bloody, terrifying and painful, I am at odds with the love of a deity who avoids giving any useful facts , information, physics, medical or social guidance that works ( spit magic is all very 'amazing' but he could have saved billions if he'd explained germ theory) , I don't think a deity who kills and maims to get his point across ( flood and Armageddon) is very deserving of adoration - pant wetting fear maybe, love nope ; seems to like bronze age warfare with swords ( his chosen people were always off conquering and enslaving at his word ) and can't organise his teachings into a simple yet liveable set of rules leading to clear ways to live.

    Christ is a disorganised, lazy, mumbling, bumbling concept of hate and guilt who is almost 2000 years late for a 6 billion corpse war he and his angels are straining at the leash to begin when big Daddy says 'go', he is a tyrant who allows no dissent, no freedom, no independent thought( reference our earlier discussion Tec , I hope you realise how scary and tragic it is when you speak about thought modification as you do ) and who uses the notion of eternal death/ hell or punishment as the price of his benevolence. Christ is not love and is a metaphor for staggering intellectual indulgence in fairytales and in modern days a super logic tool to allow rejection of the bible ( of course it took the scientists, atheists and heretics to point out the impossibility of the bible - god/ Christ never bothered to keep his manual up to date and clear of crap ) and to allow unsupportable arguments ( like Jesus is against slavery .)

    When I look back through the vast numbers of belief v skeptic debates ( here and elsewhere ) I cannot find one useful, factual or intellectually enhancing moral teaching that is a preserve of Christ but I find page after page of careful, referenced, practical, life enhancing illustrations of man's achievements. Mankind's love has done more than Christ's love on every measurable count. If I wish to speak in grandiloquent phrases I would say this:

    Christ has done less for mankind than the lowliest free thinker, the poorest paid lab technician, the Nazarene has done less for peace, equal rights and tolerance than a black girl on a bus, a parliament that banned slavery and a man standing arms raised against a line of tanks, the Lamb of Israel is a proxy for hate, patriarchalism, racism, genocide and slavery.

    Apparently the real motivation for dying on the cross was not altruistic salvation ( only a few get that ), it was a power play to gain a crown.

    You Tec are superior in every possible way to the icon you worship. If you wish to promote love then that is worthy of doing; look within not up, you have more intrinsic love than any external 'power' can inject into you. There is no need to sell yourself out, you, me, everyone has the capacity for love and greatness without the need of a puppeteer. Go be magnificent.

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Hey Tammy!

    Indeed.

    Well explained.

    Until we are willing to see and address the root of our problems they will remain.

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Tammy, I with you here, but let’s leave love out of the equation. What was the purpose of Jesus coming to earth first time round? Jesus was not a social reformer. He did not involve himself with the politics of the day. The fact that he used slavery in his illustrations does not mean he endorsed it. He used every day things to illustrate matters. People of his day could not even imagine a world without slaves, something we take for granted. In fact, slavery was abolished just the other day. 1) He came to do his Father’s will. 2) He came to declare the truth. 3) He came to fulfill prophecy. He will fix all the social problems second time round when he’s the king.

  • cofty
    cofty

    He will fix all the social problems second time round when he’s the king.

    Yeah right, any day now eh?

  • mP
    mP

    TEC:

    They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

    Seems like poor grammar, but I always thought that the 'who' is referring to 'they' at the beginning. So it would read like this:

    They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women.

    They are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires.

    They are always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.

    The whole spiel is about these men who do these things. Also says that they have aform of godliness but deny its power. Have nothing to do with them.

    mP:

    The scripture says the "women" are the stupid ones, not men. If Paul meant men he would have said men and women. You previously said Jesus said let YES mean YES and NO mean NO, and yet you constantly change the meanings of passages from the Bible. The scripture does not say "men" are stupid and yet you INSERT words and alter the meaning. If i was to present this text to you and said it was from the Koran, you would say its more degrading lang about women and yet because its the Bilbe somehow these words mean something completely different. Is that honest ?

    BTW im waiting for that scripture where jesus cancels the law of moses even after he says moses law is perfect in mat 5:17.

  • tec
    tec

    Vidquin, I love... er, I mean like ;)... the direct simplicity of your point. With one minor difference... and that is that all the social problems would 'fix themselves' if all were following Him. If the inside of the cup is clean, so too is the outside.

    Tec - you do realise that the definition of love is malleable?

    I do. I stated earlier (or perhaps another thread) that I look to Christ's example to better understand what love IS. Because I am personally biased. Of course yours and my view of Christ is obviously different. The problem is that I learned love from Him. So for you to tell me that i am 'superior' to him, makes no sense. Other than that you would not want to believe that, because that would not be the image you have for Christ. And while I appreciate your words, I know ME. You can only guess.

    BTW im waiting for that scripture where jesus cancels the law of moses even after he says moses law is perfect in mat 5:17.

    I believe that discussion is taking place on your other thread.

    AND, you left out the rest of what I said to you concerning 'stupid women.'

    Peace,

    tammy

    (oh, and thanks Fernando)

  • mP
    mP

    TEC:

    AND, you left out the rest of what I said to you concerning 'stupid women.'

    mP: I left it out simply because your making stuff up thats simply not int he scripture. The text is simple and direct. If Paul wanted to tell us something different he should have communicated more effectively. GIven he was inspired by God, i find it hard to believe that God could write so poorly that it could possibly have a totally different meaning as what you presented. I know your going to say Paul was the one actually writing the words, but then again, why would God let an effective writer pen such a poor construct.
  • maisha
    maisha

    Is not Love slavery?

    the two go hand in hand, thats how religons worldwide have power and control peolle, love of christ becomes the slavery they lost, but the two are one.

    nothing has changed, just the way people are brainwashed into doing what others want of them.

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Maisha!

  • Vidqun

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