Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo 553 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  ziddina

  "Well I was speaking from my perspective, and the perspective that I believe quite a few atheists hold. They can speak up if they have a slightly different view on it, but the atheists I know don't reject specific gods, but the concept. ...." New Chapter, page #12, post #13763

  Speaking as another atheist, I agree with New Chapter - and must add, that I am absolutely astounded and flabbergasted when theists/religionists/so-called "spiritual" people accuse myself and other atheists of "hating god", or of "believing" in evolution, or of "not having an open mind" - well, heck, it was HAVING AN OPEN MIND IN THE FIRST PLACE, that took me TO atheism...!!

  The inability of many theists/religionists/so-called "spiritual" people to understand the most BASIC concepts of time as shown in geology, paleontology, paleo-archaeology and archaeology, also astounds me. I've watched several board theists/religionists/so-called "spiritual" people go through paroxysmal spasms of contortion, attempting to substantiate their claims that the bible 'god' somehow was able to "exist" LONG before 'he' had even been mentioned in human writings!!

  Zid
• 

  Lozhasleft

  Excellent thread Chariklo, thank you.

  Loz x
• 

  Soledad

  there's a pretty big gap between opinion and scientific theory.one is based on irrelevant bs, the other is based on math and physical evidence. there are theories and models in quantum mechanics that don't require "god" at all.

  There is, and I believe there's a whole branch of science that looks into this. That you favour math, statistics and physics to bridge the gap is your preference.

  yea i know, something from nothing blah blah blah. unfortunately thats a poor excuse for a rebuttal and completely sidesteps the evidence presented.

  It's not a poor excuse, it's a question. If the universe is made of laws and facts then what is the universe made of? Can statistics answer that for me? And what presented evidence are you referring to?

  believe you me, i know. that's why i stick to using math and physical evidence to prove my point and not my "observations" with a sample size of nil.

  you need math and physics to validate your observations because...why? they aren't trustworthy? sample size isn't large enough? how large should it be? how diverse?

  you could spend the rest of your life trying to prove something mathematically, arrive at what you are looking for, then have it all crumble in a matter of seconds when someone else jumps in and says "nope! I have a different answer here."

  what then? bash them over the head with "well that's your irrelevant opinion, and everyone has one?"

  feel free if you want to.

  my point is, again, when asked the question why do atheists scorn believers, the reasons are more subjective than objective. and yes, based on a sample size of zilch.

  because what we are really asking is why do people behave the way they do. and that is something that no branch of science can conclusively answer.

  we aren't post-human yet.
• 

  Chariklo

  Thanks, Loz! And thanks too for speaking out. Many agree with you but as so often they understandably feel intimidated when it comes to laying their faith out in front of others!

  i was totally thrown by the initial reaction to this thread, but as it has gone on people have been very supportive. It's not about a proof of God. As Soledad said earlier, you can't prove God is there through science. This thread is about the behaviour, not of all atheists, but of those atheists who choose to attack and mock and scorn those who have a faith. I am very pleased that Soledad widens the discussion beyond just Christianity.
• 

  Soledad

  Soledad, I very much like the richness and depth of the Hindu system of belief. Over the years I've learned a fair bit about it and have very good friends in India, whose beliefs I hold in high regard.

  There are things I like about Hinduism too.
• 

  Chariklo

  Zid, I am amazed that you expect people to be discouraged from believing in God because of lack of proof that he was there before he was mentioned in Bible writings!

  Why on earth would you expect to find temporal "proof" of a creator who by definition is outside time and space, within the system of time and space? That's a non sequitur.

  PS I'm going to have to leave the discussion for tonight, now. I'm off to bed. Our hour changed last night...
• 

  Soledad

  Why on earth would you expect to find temporal "proof" of a creator who by definition is outside time and space, within the system of time and space? That's a non sequitur. Bingo. that sums it up for me. You can only experience god, you can't prove it. This is what many atheists miss.
• 

  ziddina

  Because... for the umpteenth time...

  There WERE many 'gods' around BEFORE the bible 'god/gods' were mentioned...

  Since this bible 'god/gods' was supposedly "opposed" to "Idolatry", WHY did it - 'he' - FAIL TO SHOW UP until the LATE BRONZE AGE,

  When civilization and writing and many other human systems had

  been established for several THOUSAND years PRIOR to the initiation

  of 'his' worship?
• 

  Chariklo

  Just on my way but...

  your problem, Zid, is that you are stuck in the JW system of thinking. As long as you rely just on the Bible for absolutely, literally, everything in respect of God, you won't actually find him. Prayer helps. Saying you don't know, would help.

  I can't copy and paste from your post on this iPad, but, yes, civilisations existed long before the Bible....so what?

  you've missed the point completely.

  goodnight, now.
• 

  Soledad

  So Zid you hold the bible as the only possible proof or standard for god?

  you just said yourself that there have been many gods and systems of belief long before this particular view was authored.

  I think that's the point both Chariklo and I are trying to make. That the bible isn't the sole proof or even a necessary one to believe in a god.

  I may have hinted at this earlier, but I think that when people stick to only one possible view of god, ie, the Christian perspective, it's easier to become atheist in the absence of desired proof for a god's existence.