I really don't understand your crap attitude Qcmbr.
is his attitude crap, or do you not like being questioned? NOTHING qcmbr said indicated a "crap attitude" and all qcmbr did was ask some rather simple questions.
Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?
by Chariklo 553 Replies latest jw friends
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rather be in hades
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NewChapter
New Chapter, you forgot one bit. It. Does. Not. Matter. To. You.
Well I was speaking from my perspective, and the perspective that I believe quite a few atheists hold. They can speak up if they have a slightly different view on it, but the atheists I know don't reject specific gods, but the concept. Then they have fun picking apart certain gods, and the inconsistencies that we see displayed by those that try to take a bronze-age creation from a far away place and make it relevant to our time and culture. But the true rejection comes at a more basic level----the concept not the god.
I will use the style I think conveys my thoughts most accurately. You are not obligated to mimick my style if it does not get across what you are trying to say. It's an individual choice.
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Qcmbr
My personal atheism hinges on a lack of evidence rather than any disagreement with a divine floaty being.
I've been here for many years now and you'd think one believer could have provided something that I could evaluate scientifically but so far it's just a ton of sophisticated hot air. It's not like I'm a difficult subject either, I'd rapidly alter my conclusions based on something of substance but apparently the most powerful, in all, through all , invisible but revealed is rejected by every physical and testable fact so far. Not simply a balance of probabilities but in every single way possible the evidence says unequivocally that the characteristics of all gods described so far are not compatible with the observed universe.
When I believed I got in some real tangled webs trying to explain my truth to skeptics. I could never understand why god didn't give me the words and the info that these , assumed honest posters were questioning me on. At the time I felt a bit like my god let me down.
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Soledad
I don't see the need to explain a thing Qcmbr, about either Ganesh, Jesus, Allah...whomever. Irrelevant to me.
Going back to what I said earlier, whatever I state is in my opinion, and this opinion is based on things that I have observed in a lot of atheists that I know, upon closer inspection, and in some cases by their own admissions.
My experience of god is personal to me. You want to look up to science and "supported evidence" ok fine. Noone is stopping you.
One theory can prove or disprove another in the blink of an eye. One discovery can dispel years or centuries of misconception and supersition. Wonderful. Supported evidence can do just that.
But just like religion, science has the power to destroy the lives of millions. Believe that? Look at the power of a split atom. In the right hands, great. In the wrong ones....we already know.
And that's supposed to be enlightened? Reasonable?
Just like believers are moved by emotion, so are atheists, just in the opposite direction. Again, in my opinion (supported by observation).
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Chariklo
Fascinating though this is, NC, the thread arose from the unfortunate behaviour of atheists towards those with a faith, dubbed, it seems, collectively as "believers", itself reducing deep faith to mere belief. As a number of posters have observed, atheists do have their own beliefs, albeit a trifle negative.
You do a splendid job of illustrating your own belief in atheism, and none of us doubt you, nor, as far as I can see, do any of us query your right to believe as you do. The United States of America was founded upon your individual right to express your beliefs as you individually choose.
Why, then, do you feel the need to mock and deride and refuse others the right to believe as they do, in peace?
That is what this thread is about.
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Qcmbr
I don't think any atheist here is refusing anyone the right to believe what they want. That would be arrogant and beyond the gift of any poster here. When someone posts something fantastical on a website ( regardless of whether it's a ...edit - I too have no idea what should be here - brain fart ! ...or not ) there is a critical response from many because rarely is any justification offered for the unusual, normally supernatural or plainly provocative idea ( like this topic.) In school when you present an essay opinion unsubstantiated by reference to facts and source material it is a quick route to red pen and a low grade. Is it too much to ask that when an opinion is presented that it be slightly more than a poke in the ribs or a wild assertion?
:(
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cofty
You want to look up to science and "supported evidence" ok fine. Noone is stopping you. - soledad
You seem to have that bizarre "them v us" attitude to science that is particularly common in the USA - why is that?
Nobody I know looks up to science.
Science is nothing more than a method of investigating the real world. Its the best method we have for overcoming bias and getting at objective facts. By necessity it excludes superstiton as a cause for anything. It has been incredibly successful.
Why do you speak disdainfully of it? Do you know of a better method for investigating the world?
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rather be in hades
I don't see the need to explain a thing Qcmbr, about either Ganesh, Jesus, Allah...whomever. Irrelevant to me.
in other words, you can't back up your opinions with anything factual so you got upset...
Going back to what I said earlier, whatever I state is in my opinion, and this opinion is based on things that I have observed in a lot of atheists that I know, upon closer inspection, and in some cases by their own admissions.
the problem with opinions is that they are often wrong and thankfully, we have this branch of mathematics called statistics which helps clear the muddy waters of opinons. so basic math tells us, your observations aren't worth much of anything.
My experience of god is personal to me. You want to look up to science and "supported evidence" ok fine. Noone is stopping you.
great, keep that in mind when you decide to try and cast others as "angry and vengeful" based on an extremely small sample size. a sample size that is, in mathematical terms, worthless.
i'm not sure how to process your view on fact based evidence. that one blows my mind. the universe is built on facts, laws and reality. not opinions
One theory can prove or disprove another in the blink of an eye. One discovery can dispel years or centuries of misconception and supersition. Wonderful. Supported evidence can do just that.
But just like religion, science has the power to destroy the lives of millions. Believe that? Look at the power of a split atom. In the right hands, great. In the wrong ones....we already know.
And that's supposed to be enlightened? Reasonable?
that's right, science can be used for good or bad.
that also has no bearing on whether science is real or a big ol' bag of manure.
no one is trying to force you to change your moral code and force you to lilve with principles you don't like in science. god is very different as i've shown.
and i'd like to point out, there is a difference between scientific law and theory. you should check that out because it's a common mistake made by believers who don't understand the difference.
Just like believers are moved by emotion, so are atheists, just in the opposite direction. Again, in my opinion (supported by observation).
so again, you base your opinions of atheists on a sample size of nil. you know what they say about opinions...
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NewChapter
Why, then, do you feel the need to mock and deride and refuse others the right to believe as they do, in peace?
?? I don't refuse anyone their right to believe. I've not done one thing to do such, and in fact, believe you do have that right. As far as mocking and deriding ideas---well they are ideas. We debate them. There are certain individuals that I don't respect---but those are few and they have brought it on. It's not so much whether they believe or not, but how they have treated others. The strange dynamic that I have seen, is when dealing with abusive believers, other believers will rally to their support even though they would not accept such behavior in a nonbeliever. That's when it becomes a believer/nonbeliever thing.
It seems to me that the term Believer is really offensive to you. How would you prefer we phrase it? Would you like us to include a long list of adjectives and nouns to more fully describe who we are referring to? Is there something perjorative about 'believer'? Do you dislike being included in a diverse group that may include people not like you? It doesn't bother me when we are referred to as atheists or nonbelievers, because that is what we are, and we are diverse and disagree on many things. But you continue to have a problem with the natural opposite--believers---how would you change that? Give us the word, so we can use it. I'd suggest not using 'faithful' as the natural opposite would be 'faithless' as though to insinuate that nonbelievers are lacking something. So find the word so that we can put this to rest. It is tiresome.
What would you consider, 'in peace'? Would that mean that they publically post their ideas to a public forum, and should expect only responses that agree with them? Would that be enough peace for you? Would it be best if atheists just STFU? Because I am thoroughly convinced that this is at the core of this discussion. But you know what? There is a board for that! And there is a board for the opposite too! There ARE places you can go and express any belief you wish without heavy challenge. Did you want us all to follow your rules here too?
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Soledad
I think you misread my post if you arrived at that conclusion.You seem to have that bizarre "them v us" attitude to science that is particularly common in the USA - why is that?
Agreed. The key is investigating the natural world as we now know it. Some here want science to prove god. As of now, hasn't been able to. So they say well if science can't prove, it isn't real. To that I say if you are going to look to science to answer the question does god exist, you will be disappointed for now. That isn't speaking disdainfully of anything. What I do find disdainful is, again, the prevailing attitude that atheism is the pinnacle of human intelligence and success. People who choose to believe or have a faith are hit over the head with "oh yeah? prove it, prove it." You know damn well it can't be proven now. So what's the real story behind all that? "Well, god didn't answer my prayers....why did he let me down...I lost my husband/wife/child/parent, why did he let that happen?" That to me is what's really behind it.Science is nothing more than a method of investigating the real world. Its the best method we have for overcoming bias and getting at objective facts. By necessity it excludes superstiton as a cause for anything. It has been incredibly successful.