Why are atheists so intent on scorning "believers"?

by Chariklo 553 Replies latest jw friends

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades
    New light, hades? With that line of thinking, you could justify the WT only including publications back to 2000 on their site...

    perhaps the reason it's simply out of date...as far as i can tell, no schools use it. last mention i see is in 2000.

    now since you want to mention the wt bs, why is it that they no longer use, stopped printing, and frankly hide their old books?

    1996 was not that long ago. Darwin's book is over a hundred years old and it's still used...

    in terms of scientific advancement? 1996 was quite a VERY long time ago. i'm stunned anyone would say that. just the leaps and bounds in computing power alone has helped science make leaps. fluid dynamics alone, do you have any idea how much computing power has changed that field? there's a reason why formula 1 teams like sauber have spent vast sums of money to have one of the greatest supercomputers in the world.

    especially in quantum mechanics. that's just...shocking

    darwin's principles are still very much true. that's why his book is still highly regarded.

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    We weren't talking about scientific advancement in that book. It was speaking about logical fallacies. That doesn't get outdated. Attack the year and not the facts? Sounds like another fallacy!

    The argument was philosophical and logical in nature. Not something that "science" has proven wrong! What's going on here?!? Nothing discussed about the fallacies that it says both atheists and theists make?!? Just talk about how science has advanced? Come on, dude...

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades

    and that still wouldn't address how qm has moved us further and further and further away from "god"

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    and that still wouldn't address how qm has moved us further and further and further away from "god"

    And yet there are quite a few quantum theorists that believe in a creator... interesting. There is no more proof or lack of proof of God with QM than there was before it.

    But we weren't talking about that. We were talking about logical fallacies. Again, it seems the issue has been avoided and the attempt was made to weaken the statement merely by focusing on the date of 1996. Books are not used in classrooms for very long anyway. They are updated ever couple years. It would be odd to be using the same book from 1996. However, it doesn't mean that all the points made in a book from 96 are invalid. But yet, I guess that is good enough for you.

    Again, no discussion that no proof would be enough proof for some people?

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades
    We weren't talking about scientific advancement in that book. It was speaking about logical fallacies. That doesn't get outdated. Attack the year and not the facts? Sounds like another fallacy!

    the source needs to be considered. that's not a fallacy i'm afraid bt whatever, i'll humor you for now. i'm bored and there's no way i'm going outside.

    The argument was philosophical and logical in nature. Not something that "science" has proven wrong! What's going on here?!? Nothing discussed about the fallacies that it says both atheists and theists make?!? Just talk about how science has advanced? Come on, dude...

    the problem with you guys is intellectual dishonesty. point blank.

    1. you won't attempt to address the overwhelming data from various fields of science and archaeology, anthropology, etc. or even learn it.

    2. all this time, believers have had their entire system dismantled time and again, and instead of using actual logic and starting from scratch when it's clear you need to, you guys simply twist your beliefs to the breaking point.

    that right there should tell you that you have a problem. any half baked scientist, mathematician, academic quite frankly, ought to recognize the problems with starting with a belief and trying to prove it, rather than observing the world around them and hypothesizing based on that.

    and let's be honest about this. we ALL know where belief in "god" comes from. it has been passed down through the ages. humans have historically thrown up their hands and said, "it must be a magical god" when they had no explanation for natural phenomenon.

    sun gods, rain gods, unknown gods. dragon gods, gods with animal heads and human bodies.

    so now, if there was "god" or "christ", why is it they allowed all of this false worship from the get go? why did it take soooooo long for humans to come up with the "made in our image bit"? why is it humans started off worshipping the sun? is the sun god or a giant ball of gas going nuclear?

    that was the old and illogical way of thinking and it's a terrible way to "prove" or a"affirm" anything.

    science has systematically stepped back, started fresh and moved forward. maybe it's time you guys do that too.

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades

    dude you'd be slapped with overwhelming evidence about the god myth if you took the time to study anthropology and science in depth.

    humans created god, god did NOT create humans. and even though there's a part of me that clings to that hope, i know better and am honest with myself about it.

    you guys keep asking for "proof"...what do you want? someone to type out entire textbooks from elementary school science and math all the way up to grad school? do some of your own research. take some classes. if you want to prove your faith despite overwhelming evidence, you should attempt to learn that overwhelming evidence first so that you can debunk it.

    academia goes through great lengths to provide evidence. it's a shame it constantly gets ignored.

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    Interesting that you mention Iceland, New Chapter. It's perhaps my favourite country outside the UK. Full of the nicest, most reasonable, most hospitable people I've ever met, as well as being geologically totally fascinating. I know it very well indeed.

    jjst for the sake of accuracy, no, most of them are not Catholic. They're Lutheran. Their Christianity goes back fairly early in the life of the nation. Iceland wasn't settled till the late 800's, and right from the beginning they developed a kind of outdoor Parliament, the Thing, in the big cleft between continental plates called Thingvellir. In the eleventh century they decided that the whole nation would be Christian. Everyone was to convert, but, and this is the bit that I and definitely elderelite would like, they would be allowed to continue to worship the old Norse gods in private. So, tolerance is built in to the national spirit, plus, and a very important plus, a deep respect and reverence for the old ways.

    So, this is a highly socially-evolved, highly educated people, very technological, and extremely modern in their lifestyle, who yet proudly and fiercely retain their nationhood and national pride. You think they are mostly Catholic. No, hardly any are Catholic. They adopted The Lutheran church very early on in the Reformation. There are Catholics there, but not many of those are Icelanders.

    you say they believe in fairies. Yes and no. They actually believe in elves, and about a half of all Icelanders will tell you they believe in them, and more will be accommodating the elves in some way in their habits and lives. Elves are everywhere. There are little houses built for them at road junctions. Little model elves, brightly dressed, stand at corners. Elf houses can be seen out in the country. And when they were building a new road, and were trying to move a huge rock, the elves, they will tell you, kept sabotaging the work. They road company called in a local medium who consulted the elves. The rock, it appeared, was sacred to the elves. The road company re-routed the road to go around the huge rock. This was comparatively recently, I think within the last 25 years.

    There are many other stories like this, of the old woman up in the north in a valley near Akureyri who saw elves and followed them into the mountain, and who later described in detail their homes and their furniture. Icelandic elves are a bit similar, it seems to me, to Irish leprechauns, but very much less mischievous and less inclined to play tricks and to use magic against humans.

    You see what I am doing here? I am showing you how a perfectly modern and highly civilised society nonetheless still retain a serious belief in a magical or spiritual dimension. No-one ridicules it or them, and they are very f ar from being the only nation like this. You mention them, and it just so happens that I know both country and people very well indeed.

    No double standard from me. I do not disbelieve in fairies, as I think I've said elsewhere. I view such beliefs with very great respect. Certainly, they are not to be ridiculed or scorned, so don't assume that people who have a firm belief in God will scorn as ridiculous a magic, elemental or spiritual world existing alongside our own.

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades

    great. is it real? or is it a false superstition? is it simply clinging to culture? or do they still hold those beliefs to the letter?

    there's plenty of people who are "jewish" or "christian" or "catholic" but don't give a damn about the beliefs, it's cultural.

    i don't believe in bloody mary, but i'm not about to turn off the lights and do that.

    does that make me a believer? no, just makes me a goofball.

    i can respect believers beliefs, i can't respect the intellectual dishonesty in the debates, especially when it has some very real world consequences.

    i'd bet michael j fox and christopher reeve really wishes(d) stem cell research wasn't stymied by religious beliefs.

    there's a woman in the dominican i believe who really wishes she didn't just lose her daughter to cancer because the doctors waited to long to do chemo because it would effectively abort the daughter's baby.

    i suspect bristol palin would have really wanted an abortion if it weren't for her mother...

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    Is it real, hades?

    let each reader decide....

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades

    okay...

    is 1+1 really 2?

    let each reader decide...

    that is the sort of thing i'm talking about...

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