by Christ Alone 295 Replies latest jw friends
is it free will that the need is induldged in?
Good point... However I don't just eat because I HAVE to eat. I WANT to eat. I LOVE to eat! Likewise, I don't feel like I have a relationship with God because I have to. I used to be that way... But I want to have a relationship with God. I LOVE my relationship with God.
Do I believe He created us to NEED a relationship with Him? Yeah...it's a good point. But I don't have to. I won't die by NOT believing in Him like I would if I didn't eat.
My whole point, and I acknowledge that I would be wrong in many cases, is that the comment that nearly every atheist makes "I would believe if there was proof" is an understatement and there is very little, save for God appearing to say that He exists, that would convince an atheist.
I countered that by suggesting (with confidence) that were sufficient proof for even the likes of OTWO to come about, it would be "believers" that don't accept the actual proof because God would not be what they expected him to be. So think about that.
I would wish that your "God" would fix amputees and stop the waves of a tsunami from killing hundreds of thousands, not because it would offer proof to the worst doubters, but because it's the right thing to do.
I would expect that, at the very least, every person would have the same opportunity that the stories say were given to people in Palatine- that Jesus would walk the earth literally healing and feeding people and they could make up their own minds.
It is just my view that there is plenty of reason to believe in an intellgent creator. And I believe that there is plenty of reason even outside the Bible.
In another thread, I focused on that word, "intelligent." Even if you are so sure that God exists, is mankind and the whole of creation really a testimony to an intelligence?
I'm really not going to comment more on the Bible in this way, because I'm not trying to use that as any "proof". I believe it and it comments on things that I've thought about, and that is why I've brought it up, but I don't want to be accused of using it as "proof" of anything, especially since atheists don't view it as an authority in any way anyway.
Thanks.
Yeah, OTWO, I realize that this "survey" is flawed and destined for failure. It seemed like a good idea at the time...Christ Alone
I hear ya buddy... LOL
And HW and Charlie: Sorry to get off track. I have this irresistable urge to answer questions when I'm asked. I guess this is why most atheist vs theist threads turn off topic and go back to this same discussion. But I find it fascinating. And while many may not think I'm level headed, I want to show that level headed conversations can take place and done without "scorn" or fighting.
You are to good CA! Honest and loving! Well, it is important that we count all the votes. I can help you maybe.
Stay strong!
In Christ
Love Healthworker
I started listing how you could do this, but it started to get too long. Don't even assume ex-JW's really "believed."
So I gave up this list when I realized it would get too long.
Check one or more of the following:
_________I used to believe in a monotheistic God and no longer do believe in a monotheistic God.
_________I used to believe in a monotheistic God and believe in a monotheistic God, although my beliefs have changed/grown.
_________I used to believe in a monotheistic God and still believe there is something out there that could be defined by me as "God."
_________I don't know what I believed, but I do believe in a monotheistic God now.
_________I don't know what I believed, but I do believe there is something out there that could be defined by me as "God" now.
CA I think these are god questions. Not sure that I can be intelligent right now, I'm really tired. Maybe a thread for another day? Or get it going and I'll join in maybe tomorrow?
Even if you are so sure that God exists, is mankind and the whole of creation really a testimony to an intelligence?
Interesting that you bring that up, OTWO. We're going to be talking about "Language of God" by Dr. Francis Collins on another thread, which discusses the DNA evidence of a creator and how science and faith CAN mutually coexist. Is mankind and all creation the testimony of an intelligence? Does it take a great intelligence? I say, "YES!!!!"
I enjoyed The Language of God. I didn’t agree with him on one or two points, but all in all, a good read. I need to reread it now that my JW blinders are all the way off.
CA - It would be the easiest thing imaginable for an omnipotent god to heal somebody in such a way that all reasonable attempts to dismiss it as supernatural would be impossible.
I could design such a scenario in a few minutes.
Jesus life counts for nothing as far as evidence goes because the bible is hopelessly contradictory.
Its almost as if god doesn't really want us to believe in him.
This is why believers make a virtue out of a vice with their "faith".
