Survey: Who here is an atheist? Who here still believes in God?

by Christ Alone 295 Replies latest jw friends

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  sizemik

  Either the universe is eternal, God is eternal, or something came from nothing.

  I get you CA . . .

  But the nature of "eternal" doen't necessarily mean something is ever-present. The components of the physical world may be part of an eternal cycle. The best way to picture eternity is as a ring rather than a straight line (which has a beginning and end and therfore not eternal). Any point on that cycle or ring, may bear absolutely no resemblance to another . . . but is connected, or gives rise to, the next phase in the cycle.

  In practical terms of the universe . . . we already see through cosmology (with it's unique view through time as well as space) that the universe has been through such phases . . . where the molecular elements that make up the universe we see today have not yet even come into existence. What came before the big bang? . . . maybe a contracting universe . . . and round and round the cycle of eternity continues. We can only see a very small section of that cycle from our current vantage point.

  That eternity is subject to such cycles is not such a radical concept . . . we see these cycles in all parts of the physical world already.

  I feel this concept needs to be taken seriously . . . that eternity does not mean that something is ever-present or constant. In order to attribute meaningful purpose to life . . . we often feel the need for the ever-present constant of a God concept . . . something unchanging and in control.
• 

  Christ Alone

  It would be the easiest thing imaginable for an omnipotent god to heal somebody in such a way that all reasonable attempts to dismiss it as supernatural would be impossible.

  Yes, but faith is apparently important to God. There would be no need for faith in such a senario. It's not modern day believers that came up with the idea of faith on their own. For them, they believe what the Bible says about faith in that "Without faith it is impossible to please God." Heb 11:6

  There must, in some way, be a need for faith. If God was explicit in everything and made it impossible NOT to believe, there would be no need for faith.
• 

  elderelite

  Ca, its well stated that u like to eat, most of us do, some to a fault :-) but the bible itself calls it a spritual "need". God filling a need he gave us by confirming his existance wouldnt invalidate free will. It would fill a need he gave us, like an apple when we are hungry :-)
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  Christ Alone

  But EE, the missing component is Faith. Why IS faith so important to God?
• 

  elderelite

  Well CA im afraid you are asking the wrong athiest agnostic leaning Thor worshipping Jedi :-)
• 

  still thinking

  But EE, the missing component is Faith. Why IS faith so important to God?

  I don't believe the God concept to be reality, other than the reality that some people believe it to be real....and the bible is just a book.

  Asking why faith is important to him and quoting a bible verse to prove it, has no meaning in my life. One does not prove the other just because people say both are real or true without any evidence to support this claim.

  For me its no different to asking why is fairy dust so important to fairies.
• 

  cofty

  faith is apparently important to God - Christ Alone

  Can you suggest a possible reason for such a strange requirement?

  I can think of a rational explanation -

  "We have very little evidence for our god but believing despite a lack of evidence is a virtue. We call it faith and without faith god won't accept you".

  Do you have a more parsimonious explanation?
• 

  Christ Alone

  See that's the thing, cofty. Faith is not merely believing a set of facts. It is a TRUSTING relationship between two people. Faith in another is needed in any relationship. I can't ever truly know another person since their heart and mind are hidden, largely. That is why faith is the basis of a relationship with others AND God.

  For example, a wife gets into a car with her husband driving, trusting him to drive safely, even though he often drives faster than she would on winter roads. She trusts him to act in their best interest at all times. We all share information about ourselves with others, trusting they will not betray us with that knowledge. We drive down the road, trusting those driving around us to follow the rules of the road. So, whether with strangers or with intimate friends and companions, because we cannot fully know others, trust is always a necessary component of our relationships.

  Faith and trust are inextricably linked. So the question: Will God accept you without Faith, would have to be answered, no. Would I feel that someone loved ME if they did not have faith in me?

  But it is pointless to even discuss faith with an atheist. Not intended to be insulting. It's just it's at this point that the discussion usually takes a turn south because there is very little that can be agreed upon after bringing up faith.
• 

  cofty

  That's a very blatant bait-and-switch - you are better than that CA.

  You asked what it would take for me to believe in god

  I said if god would perform a healing miracle like restoring an amputated limb in such a way that it could not reasonably be dismissed

  You said that, " There would be no need for faith in such a senario"

  I suggested that faith is making a virtue out of a vice - "I have very little evidence but my god likes faith"

  Then you switch the meaning of faith to trust.
• 

  atrapado

  agnostic