by Christ Alone 295 Replies latest jw friends
Originally RCC, former JW, bad boy for a while, currently non affiliated, non denominational Born Again Christian (NOT American pseudo evangelical/political crazies) with a preference towards amillennialism/partial preterist eschatology and occasionally church of my new wife's choice Baptist.
Shalom, I joined here a couple of weeks ago, and have enjoyed the updates on the Borg. ;)
so far, everything that could not be measured, has turned out to be false.
we cannot measure the edge of the world because it doesn't exist.
we cannot measure the strength of the turtles the planet is supported on because it doesn't exist.
we cannot measure the sun's orbit around the earth because the earth actually orbits the sun.
this is why we need hard data, because every time we do this sort of thng, we turn out to be way off base.
now as for people rationalizing away miracles if they saw them...
1. observe - a man is curing the blind with spit and mud.
2. question - why? is it in the components of the spit or the mud?
3. hypothesize - i believe the cure is inthe materials used
4. experiment - test the mud and saliva. compare with a large sample of various muds and saliva. determine if there is anything different about the mud and saliva used, perform controlled studies with placebos to see if that mud or saliva will cure more people and collect the data.
5. analyze the data - does the data support the hypothesis? no?
then back to 3.
3. hypothesize - it wasn't the materials so maybe it's the guy himself?
4. experiment - check to see if there are abnormalities in the person's body/blood, etc if given permission. check family history, check neighbor's histories, test this against a large random sample size.
5. analyze the data - does the data support it's the guy? yes?
6. publish results
of course we're still not at the conclusion that this guy was god though. after publishing and letting others observe the data and samples, if the data holds up, then we question why this guy was so special.
and on and on we go until we reach the inevitable conclusion that this was god, or his son, or whatever. if that were truly the case.
if we can prove it, we'll believe it. so far.........
Sure you can read that in some book and hear people say it. But the evidence shows otherwise. Does repeating something make it so?
People show otherwise.
I don't repeat something, thinking that makes it true.
The evidence and understanding (and Christ most importantly) in my life show me that it IS true.
Peace,
tammy
You're right cofty. I actually got busy and hence got lazy with my posts.
Hades, things we once thought not to exist because we had no 'evidence' for them, are now known TO exist. Because our tools caught up with what is actually there. Not our physical senses, but our tools that we make to enhance our senses.
But not being able to measure them did not mean that they did not exist.
We do not have the tools to measure anything spiritual at the moment. Maybe one day we will. Maybe by then it won't matter because we will have learned to hear or see without the tools, because we learned.
Peace,
tammy
Tammy - According to you god made the physical with humans that detect the world by hearing and seeing and touching.
If god exists and he desires people to know him his first step has to be to give sensible evidence of his existence.
Only after he has done that can deal with issues about learning to trust him.
Its foolish to talk about trusting something that doesn't exist.
CA asked me what it would take for me to believe in god and I gave a specific and reasonable answer.
Why is it too hard for your god, I'm not asking for much?
The rational answer is that he doesn't exist - can you suggest another?
You're right cofty. I actually got busy and hence got lazy with my posts.
No problem. Its an intersting line of thought, take your time. I'm off to bed soon.
Tammy - According to you god made the physical with humans that detect the world by hearing and seeing and touching.
They were spiritual first.... we are spirit within vessels of flesh.
Its foolish to talk about trusting something that doesn't exist.
Agreed. But I am not talking about that?
It is also foolish to assume that faith is blind, and that is what everyone means when they speak of faith. Just blind belief. People were not stupider 2000 years ago. Less advanced in terms of technology and the 'hows' of the universe. But not stupider. No one is talking about blind belief.
CA asked me what it would take for me to believe in god and I gave a specific and reasonable answer.
I'm sorry. I missed this exchange. I'll go back and look.
Peace,
tammy
Cofty I can offer another line of though. You see God likes to laugh at our face and his main purpose is to see how many people will believe in him without offering any proof. He is a funny guy that likes to play jokes on his creation.
