Regarding 1975: The October 15, 1966 WT stated: " What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends? ’ asked Brother Franz. ‘ Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah ’ s witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don ’ t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975.." Ethos this quotation that you post was from 1966. This I believe was the year that 1975 was brought to our attention by the Society. It really had it's roots in the Divine Plan of the Ages by Pastor Russel i believe. Between 1966 and 1975. I think they got more specific later regarding 1975. Like the light getting brighter.
Should You Be Stumbled by Watchtower Errors? You Decide!
by Ethos 110 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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wasblind
Totter - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/totter
a : to tremble or rock as if about to fall : sway. b : to become unstable : threaten to collapse. 2. : to move unsteadily : stagger, wobble ...
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GromitSK
Mentioning a matter without a time frame eg "Armageddon is near, but we don't know when", is one thing, saying in effect "next year looks particularly appropriate for Armageddon" (not forgetting this organisation claims to be God's channel on Earth) is to my mind completely different. In fact imho they put it even more strongly than that. It seems to me scaremongering, or at best, judgement of the poorest order. Perhaps those who run this organisation were seduced by their own propaganda and really believed there was a chance this would actually happen. One only has to read some of the publications leading up to this year to see that an expectation was set, or a least encouraged.
Jehovah's Witnesses are just one more religion in a constant stream over the centuries. All convinced they have the 'The Truth', all convinced that their flavour is the one God prefers. I feel very sorry for those enslaved to such an organisation (and there are many others). It can be very difficult even to see the need to break free. I am so grateful that I am not longer a part of such a group, and frankly feel embarrassed that I ever fell for their delusional, damaging and joyless theology.
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Finkelstein
Maybe the question should be asked ... should you be stumbled by the WTS's fraudulent deceiving commercialization and its own inherent corruption
operating as a religious publishing house ?
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whathappened
Ethos, my dear, face the facts. There is no defense for what the Watchtower Society has done. They have falsely prophesied, they have added there own interpretation to the Bible and made their writings equal to the scriptures. They are condemned by their own words and actions. They are not from God and never were.
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wasblind
The WTS did indeed give an exact time frame:
" The "generation" that was alive at the beginning of the fulfillment of the sign in 1914 is now well along in years. The time remaining must be very short."_________Reasoning from the scriptures book page 239
The WTS emphasized the word generation wit quotation marks, indicating the group that was alive in 1914 would be the ones to see the end
they were not talkin' about an overlappin' generation that was born in 1991 or any other who was born while the old ones where stilll alive
The Reasoning book backs up the May 15, 1984 WT mag that fooled the old folks on the cover
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perfect1
If anything such matter do not STUMBLE us, they give a firm footing in reality.
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wasblind
You said it perfect 1
When has there ever been firm feet on shiftin' sand of the WTS???????
2 Timothy 3:7 " always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth"
Sound familiar
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Band on the Run
Ethos,
If I was overly harsh to your first post, I apologize. My view is so different from yours. I recall vividly the world of the Witnesses and much I hated it every single second. I don't know what your amount of time in the Witnessses has been. A proper middle class education exposed me to new ideas. Ideas that made sense. First, college did not insist on knowing detailed facts so much as being able to examine them critically. No lawyer can be effective unless s/he can see a client's weakness as well as strength. The Witnesses data dump spurious facts.
Admittedly, your quotes may be correct. When one is a Witness, though, one knows such statements are present .000001% of the time and the rest is composed of statements about how great the GB is and what a channel of truth and God.
When I was a Witness, I honestly believed I knew my BIble. I heard the same simpleton stories over and over again. Some of the most beautfiul passages in Paul, admired by all religions, make me puke b/c of the Witness gloss. Indeed, I knew many verses by heart. When I studied the New Testament as an academic subject, we were regarded to read the gospels and Paul's actual letters as primary sources. Conflicting articles by different scholars comprised the secondary reading. We did not skip around verses. For the first time in my life, I read consecutive verse and finished a Bible bok in only or two settings. We had study aids such as the parallel gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke, based, in part, on an earlier source, were printed so you could read the account in Mark, the earliest gospel, and see how Matthew and Luke treated the same tradition and sayings. Reading the Bible verse by verse, with no commentary in the beginning, I found so many lies by the WT. It surprised me greatly at the time b/c I still believe the WT knew its Bible.
Our guest lecturers included professors who translated the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Gnostic Gospels. I realize what the WT does not like higher education. We adored my prof, Elaine Pagels of Gnostic Gospel fame. She replied that she could tell us any stupid thing and we would believe her. Pagels explained that her new book was at the commentary from other scholars stage. According to her, tenure makes sense. A scholar cannot con his peers.
Honestly, I was away from home and called home every four hour to quote something in the Bible that the Witnesses had wrong on its face. It is impossible for me to switch from one verse out of context to another verse out of context. Jesus or Shakespeare said that the devil can quote scripture for his own purpose. If you discuss entire Bible books and place it in credible social/economic.historical context, such discussion could be very revealing. Before this course, I never would have believed that the Witness distorted actual Bible verses. Reading the Bible opened my eyes in much the same way as Adam and Eve in Genesis. My belief in Christ is much stronger now.
If one believes in creation, and I most certainly do not believe it literally, God gave us minds to think. Minds capable of making great music, such as the Beatles, the WHO, Dylan, and Handel, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, etc. Part of my world view is to crave hearing other sides and new takes on material. College taught me one thing very well. I can only ever know such a small sliver of what is available in this world. It is humbling. Although I was a child and teenager, I am deeply ashamed that I knocked on doors and preached to Protestants and informed Catholics with arrogance that I or the Witnesses had any grasp of truth. One can have faith with absolute certainty. The more I know, the more I believe.
I stumbled upon this forum. Five things I discovered here have made see the WT (not individual JWs but the GB and the Writing Department) is loathsome. 1. Intentionally false statements concerning the scholarship availale. Many scholars have publicly rebuked the WT;s take. Since I am a lawyer, I consulted the primary texts. Outright lies or miscontrued so poorly that it amounts to a falsehood. 2. The WT joining UN organizations. I grew up with nothing was more evil than the UN. 3. The recent story of Selma and Steve in the Wt. Steve beats Selma to a pulp frequently. Her Witness conductor encourages her to take the abuse as her due and, OMG, Steve becomes a Witness after 15 years of continuing to beat Selma. Such story was not at all essential to the WT article. 4. The "two witness" rule for pedophiles is not scriptural. Right now the WT Legal Department has ordered elders to report abuse to the department and not to authorities. This is lawless and a clear violation of Jesus said concerning Caesar's due. 5. This truly shocked me. Rutherford's letter to HItler and the Witness get out of concentration camp card. Rutherford writes how similar WT policy is to the Nazi party. He makes express antiSemitic comments. I cried so hard and feared going to a camp myself when I was young. While I will not negate that the Witnesses were persecuted, it was persecution very different from that of other groups. Jews gays, gyypsies, and others could not sign a statement and leave the camp.
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problemaddict
@Ethos. I agree with BOTR pretty much across the board.
I have read these quotes before a they are readily available and I believe originally compiled by Hal Flemmings. Hal is a good man.
I only speak for myself, but I believe this to be true without some others being aware of its validity. The issue is not teaching things differently. The issue is not neccesarily the wacky claims of WT's past, or the current try for the 9th time teachings. Quite frankly, religions change their minds all the time for a host of reasons. The issue, is attributing these things to GOD. The issue is furthered by the fact that if you disagree with stated teachings by whoever is currently heading the branch, then you will be disfellowshipped if you do not allow your thinking to be readjusted.
That is simply not biblical. Fasle teachings are not to be tolerated, but even Dyotrophese (sp?) wasn't disfellowshipped. Excuse the crude analogy, but its like I'm in the elevator with one other guy, I smell something, and he turns to me and tells me its me.
Realize, I still attend meetings although with less frequency, and have pioneered, served abroad, served in the congregation, have friends at bethel, etc... It would be EASIER for me and my family to ignore the hypocricy. The branch simply cannot have it both ways. In expresing my sentiments to local elders and friends, I find a mixed bag of reactions. Many people know something isn't right instinctively, and others are concerned for their "place and nation" so to speak.
Cnsider this. In a new WT study article, and in SEVERAL over the past few years, the writing department has focused on listening to the elders, patience when not understanding something, and the need to obey despite that lack of understanding not making a way for Satan. The example given EVERY TIME has been that of Moses vs Korah and his freinds. I of course do not have to tell you who is who. Here is where it gets important. They are drawing a parallel between themselves and Moses, as well as those who question Moses, with those that question them. How can you draw a parallel with Moses, while at the same time claim no divine inspiration, no "special" relationship with the holy spirit, and no "gifts" of the spirit as it relates to knowledge or understanding right along with tongues and healing? You simply cannot. The two are not analgous.
This I believe is what BOTR is talkign about in his opning comments. A few reasonable sentances plucked out of the WT are no more damning than a few off the rocker sentences plucked out of the millions of sentence written. The culture those words have created though, cannot be denied. And to suggest falsehood at anytime came from Jehovah under the guise of light getting brighter and brighter, is at best disrestpectful to your creator.