by NeverKnew 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
While your awaiting your posting limit to increase Ethos perhaps it would be worthy to investigate some of the information
on this forum site concerning the WTS. and some its specific doctrines. Such as 1914 derived from 607 BCE. or the Blood transfusion doctrines etc.
This would give you some back ground insight to where people have developed their viewpoints from.
The Search box is useful for this purpose.
All Ethos has to do it answer 5 or six post every time he post that will allow him to repsond to 10x5=50 post a day. He should not be wasting posts on non related items of complaints, if he does, clearly he is stalling and haveing a hard time with the questions possed.
Ethos has so many questions to answer, he could take on 10 questions in one post, if he/she wanted to/was able to.
S
Ethos:
As you may remember, my thread was with respect to tipping points. Others gave examples of their own tipping points. My goal was to get an idea of how high (or low) your standards were for your leaders. Is it okay for them to knowningly lie? Is it okay for them to protect pedophiles for the sanctity of the organization? Is it okay for them to suggest that God said something that they never heard? I'm also learning that the only tipping point you hold is the notion of the acceptance of the Trinity. That worries me - I'll show you why below.
Others have claimed that the typical JW response to information contradictory to that which was originally held is ...warm enthusiasm. Even if just the former week, any notion remotely similar would have been coldly rejected. Consider the following and think about my questions.
On the name "Jehovah"
1. Unlike others on this board who have been affiliated with your organization, I knew nothing about the significance given to the name "Jehovah" until it was told to me by an exasperated JW that my refusal to use the "divine name" could result in catastrophic consequences. In horror, my most immediate thought was, "I know my mother and father's real names, but I kinda like my head positioned on my shoulders so I'll continue to call them by their titles and not their first names. Further, out of respect, I would not call the President, 'Barack,' a judge, "Bob," or an officer of the law anything other than officer so WHY THE HECK WOULD I CALL THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE BY A FIRST NAME????"
2. After some research, I got my hands on and read pages 884-885 of your organization's Aid to Bible Understanding (which, I'm told was written by a person who was later labeled an apostate). After reading it, I became really concerned. By the Watchtower's own admission, the name "Jehovah" didn't even exist until 700 years ago. By all appearances, the organization seems to be giving a whole lot of credence to a Roman Catholic monk's made-up name. What's up with that? Remember, that information came from YOUR materials - not JWN or JWFacts.
Now, as one who is completely ignorant of JW doctrine, my question becomes.... so, what do they believe now?
3. On your organization's NEW website, the casual reader sees this as part of the argument supporting the use of the name:
A Practice in Conflict With God’s Will
The widespread failure to use God’s name is based strictly on human tradition and not on Bible teachings. “Nothing in the Torah prohibits a person from pronouncing the Name of God. Indeed, it is evident from scripture that God’s Name was pronounced routinely,” explains Jewish researcher Tracey R. Rich, author of the Internet site Judaism 101. (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102004042#s=17:0-17:344)
The critically thinking person says to themselves, "hm.... they say it's at an internet site, but they fail to provide the hyperlink - wonder why? Let's ask Professor Google," googles the quote and finds this page http://www.jewfaq.org/name.htm.
Lo and behold, the first bullet points at the top of that page are as follows:
• The name of God should be treated with respect
• God has many names in the Bible
• A Name should not be written, so it will not be discarded disrespectfully
• The most important name is the four-letter name
• The pronunciation of the four-letter name is unknown
And at the bottom of the page,
Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH ("J" is pronounced "Y" in German), and the name stuck.
This is a webpage that your organization referenced. How should I view your requirements of your leaders in light of these counter-arguments that your organization has brought to light? Can you suggest to me, a householder, that they're being entirely sincere?
(Edit) Failed to keep my promise, do you have any idea how the Trinity doctrine has been obscured by the use of the WTS replacement name "Jehovah"? Probably not.
Theos ...**** My tipping point would be a teaching of false doctrine that knowingly went unchecked. Like if the Wt came out and said the Trinity was true. That would be my tipping point that something is wrong******
According to the scriptures Jehovah gave ample evidence that Jesus was the Christ by signs and wonders to Israel to secure the spiritual Israel of God. We are personally promised by the Father in 1 John 5:9-13, That in conjunction with the withness of these earlier followers of Jesus who gave us the NT that the Father will also give us a personal witness when We believe what HE says about HIS Son, In HIM, you will have New life to overcome Satan, sin and death.
I believe most of us agree that through the ages after Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD that the church On EARTH was a mixture of wheat and weeds. It is possible that some groups had more "Bibical" truth than others, but NONE was exclusively used by Jesus and Jehovah.
The WBTS is not JUST claiming That they have more truth than any other church, but CLAIM that they were selected as THE ONLY CHANNEL that Jehovah is using, based on Bibical chronology that ended up with members of the society been in imprisioned in 1919. So regardless of which group has more or less truth, the WBTS EXISTENCE is based on the accuracy of these dates. If these dates are wrong, they may still have some truth, but their foundation of being the ONLY CHANNEL based on dates have proven to be in error and subsequently, they are just another sect at best and a cult at worse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnY8Tkey6FU&feature=endscreen&NR=1
Some food for thought !
If the WTS. is a commercialized false prophet, then that should definitely become a serious concern for all and any who
become involved with organization, in mindfulness of keep oneself spiritually clean before god as it were.
Ethos said:
Core doctrines that havent changed: The importance of using and sanctifying God's name, Jehovah. The role of Jesus Christ not as God Almighty, but God's son who will rule as King of Gods Kingdom fof 1,000 years. God is not nor has he ever been a pagan Trinity god. God does not torture souls forever and ever in a fiery hell. The soul is not immortal. The dead are unconscious. The value of Christ's ransom sacrifice. The importance of political neutrality and not participating in wars. The responsibility of true Christians to preach to everyone and not leave it to a paid clergy class. Advocating the urgency of the times and the parousia of Christ. I could go on but I think this is sufficient.
My reply:
Wrong. The importance that the org places on use of the name Jehovah actually has changed. It was non-existant for many years even after Jesus supposedly examined the WT and chosen to handle his earthly affairs. They did not adopt the name Jehovah's Witnesses until 1931. Everything else you name is not established as truth, but simply WT teachings...and none of those are unique to JWs...all of those elements are taught by other groups.
Core doctrines that havent changed: (1)The importance of (a)using and (b)sanctifying God's name, Jehovah.(2)The role of Jesus Christ not as God Almighty, but God's son who will rule as King of Gods Kingdom fof 1,000 years. (2)God is not nor has he ever been a pagan Trinity god. God does not torture souls forever and ever in a fiery hell. The soul is not immortal. The dead are unconscious. (3)The value of Christ's ransom sacrifice. (4) The importance of political neutrality and not participating in wars. (5) The responsibility of true Christians to preach to everyone and not leave it to a paid clergy class Advocating the urgency of the times and (6) the parousia of Christ. I could go on but I think this is sufficient.
Oh how little JWs know about their own religion...
Oh please, do go on...
