by jam 84 Replies latest members private
LOL, it's a reference from Isaiah 53:12-
" Therefore I will divide him a portion
with the great,
and he shall divide the spoil with
the strong;
because he poured out his soul to
death,
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors."
Oh :)
I get that part of the prophetic bit, but not the part about going and buying a sword.
Peace,
tammy
I knew it referred to the passage in Isaiah. I just didn't know that carrying a sword made you a transgressor. Maybe Jerusalem required a concealed carry permit or something.
All I can find on the Net is that maybe they were breaking the rule which forbade the carrying of weapons on a feast-day. Which would make sense, I guess, as Jesus broke the Sabbath rules quite often. Maybe that was what made them 'transgressors'.
All I can find on the Net is that maybe they were breaking the rule which forbade the carrying of weapons on a feast-day. Which would make sense, I guess, as Jesus broke the Sabbath rules quite often. Maybe that was what made them 'transgressors'.
Makes as much sense as any other 'explanation'.
In reality, when people wrote Messiah fiction, they knew they had to write some stuff about 'fulfilling' a bunch of so-called 'prophecies'. It doesn't have to be true. It barely even has to be plausible. Some people will believe anything, especially if 'the same' book (well, actually an entirely separate book) says "all scripture* is 'inspired'*".
*"All scripture" means, 'whatever is deemed valid by some old guys hundreds of years after the alleged events (even if we believe those old guys weren't 'true' Christians)'. Any similarity to the actual meaning of the word "all" is purely co-incidental. (This is the same definition of "all" as at Matthew 21:22 and Mark 11:24.)
*"inspired" means... well it's anyone's guess really... god did a magic thing... that's usually the excuse for anything unexplainable.
Band:
Bull. The Garden of Gethsemane was near or in Jerusalem. It was probably a close suburb. There is no mention of any swords, knives, catapults, etc. when Jesus went into the wilderness and was tempted by Satan. Jews are law abiding people. The Romans established the Pax Romana.
You might want to read your history.. There were zillions of bandits and terrorist groups running around Israel causing trouble. There were plenty of groups. Those idiots even fought each other while Rome was attacking the walls of Jerusalem. Life was hard in those days, people played hard and died hard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicarri
The Sicarii used stealth tactics to obtain their objective. Under their cloaks they concealed sicae, or small daggers, from which they received their name. At popular assemblies, particularly during the pilgrimage to the Temple Mount, they stabbed their enemies (Romans or Roman sympathizers, Herodians, and wealthy Jews comfortable with Roman rule), lamenting ostentatiously after the deed to blend into the crowd to escape detection. Literally, Sicarii meant "dagger-men". [4]
The victims of the Sicarii included Jonathan the High Priest, though it is possible that his murder was orchestrated by the Roman governor Felix. Some of their murders were met with severe retaliation by the Romans on the entire Jewish population of the country. On some occasions, they could be bribed to spare their intended victims. Once, Josephus relates, after kidnapping the secretary of Eleazar, governor of the Temple precincts, they agreed to release him in exchange for the release of ten of their captured assassins.
Band on the Run,.
It would be "Easier" for people to "believe" that Jesus could reattach an ear instead of a "severed head" or a severed penis. So an ear was chosen for this story. Plus reattaching a severed penis, well, would just be weird.
NJY
Sicarii
Perhaps the countryside was not well maintained by the authorities. Jerusalem was/is a major city under Roman occupation. I repeat, Pax Romana, Roman Peace, known throughout the world and repeated in Western civilian history books since Roman times. It was taught in elementary school. It was the major administrative of Roman occupation. Jerusalem was also a major financial center. Nazareth did not matter much. Jerusalem mattered. Just as Manhattan gets outsized resources b/c of the revenues it generates, Jerusalem would have been a special case.
Also, this incident occurs during the Passover Festival. Countless thousands of villagers would have flocked into Jerusalem. The Romans definitely would have garrisoned more troops than usual. It was clear to the Romans that even a small demonstration could lead to massive riots and a threat to their rule. Furthermore, Jewish authorities would have been in out force. My local priest said Jerusalem was not a world city but during Passover the population exploded.
Now that others has posted, I agree that it is written to fulfill some Old Testament prophecy. Jesus used very violent imagery in his apocalyptic sayings. He brings an ax, there is another sword reference. He comes not to unite but to divide. The sayings of Jesus that seem out of character. The Last Temptation of Christ emphasized these sayings.
Of course, the Hebrew Scriptures were written for Hebrews, not Christians. When Christians mess with the Hebrew Scriptures in the Greek sciptures, it will never come across naturally. I don't think the suffering servant verses from Isaiah apply to the sword and ear incident. It applies to the overall story. Of course, the suffering servant was not Jesus.
I still find the story very humorous. When I was young, I wondered about the ear. Maybe where Jesus says let those who have ears, hear. No matter what prophetic interpretation, the ear slicing is bizarre. Peter really showed them. If you saw an ear amputated with pure rage, after Jesus says to love your enemies, and Jesus healed it, would you still arrest him? I would be awed and prob. convert.
"Snare, the bible was not written in real time. The sword guarding the way to the tree of life is symbolic (and used long after swords were already invented), not literal. The object of symbolism comes after the object is already invented and known."
How do you know ANY of this ? This is just your intepretation of what can only be explained this way based on what we know in 2012.
