Is the WT the only true religion?

by Christ Alone 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I understand, Christ Alone, what you are trying to do. Great job, by the way. I can feel the relentless pull of one argument laid upon the other.

    A few questions, as you wear the Apologists hat.

    Regarding being the only religion bearing God’s true name:

    1. There are other religions that incorporate Jehovah/Yahweh in their name. Are they also true?

    2. The Isrealites were the original chosen people, and they have reclaimed Jerusalem and rebuilt their nation. Is that not a more likely restoration of Jehovah’s people?

    3. “Jehovah” itself is a transliteration. The correct pronunciation is closer to “Yahweh”. Would God be pleased that his name is mispronounced?

    4. Names come cheap. Living up to a name is harder. Saying one belongs to Yahweh, and actually living up to that name is a whole other matter.

    There are many bible verses that talk about the marks of God’s people. Of these are included the fruit of the spirit (love, joy, peace, gentleness, patience, yadda, yadda) chief among them is love. Another bible verse on the separation of sheep and goats, indicates that helping the sick and the poor is one of the chief marks of knowing Jesus.

    I see many self-identifying marks that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have given themselves, (going door-to-door, unity, identifying with the name of Jehovah), but the scriptural references are weak. Where are the chief identifying marks I’ve mentioned above?

    Aren’t there other religious organizations that feed the poor, help the weak and the sick that are actually doing the work that Jesus asked them to do?

    I might also mention that all of this self-identification is dependent on one book, the Bible. There is a good two-thirds of the world’s population that does not depend on the prophecies of this book.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Does anyone else think that CA has come here to count time ?

    Sounds like there was a call for publisher report cards due just recently.

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    Regarding being the only religion bearing God’s true name:

    1. There are other religions that incorporate Jehovah/Yahweh in their name. Are they also true?

    2. The Isrealites were the original chosen people, and they have reclaimed Jerusalem and rebuilt their nation. Is that not a more likely restoration of Jehovah’s people?

    3. “Jehovah” itself is a transliteration. The correct pronunciation is closer to “Yahweh”. Would God be pleased that his name is mispronounced?

    4. Names come cheap. Living up to a name is harder. Saying one belongs to Yahweh, and actually living up to that name is a whole other matter.

    1. Yes, there are other organizations that use the name Yahweh. I have yet to see an organization that bears the name of God as we know it today: Jehovah. However, even if there were they must show a composite sign of being the true religion. Do the organizations that bear gods name also preach door to door? Do all the organizations that bear gods name refuse to go to war or be involved with politics? Do these same organizations reject god dishonoring doctrines such as trinity, hell, and immortal soul?

    2. No, Israel is not a restoration of God's people. They were rejected once they rejected the Messiah, Jesus Christ. After their rejection, Jehovah adopted the Gentiles as his people. Now the Jews and Gentiles were to be one brotherhood and function as the Israel of God. Fleshly Israel no longer has a purpose in Jehovah's eternal purpose. It is Jew and Gentile together that make up Jehovah's Witnesses, and not the fleshly nation of Israel that continues to reject Jesus as Jehovah's Messiah.

    3. Jehovah is a transliteration. But it is the common usage of God's name. We don't use the pronunciation "Yeshua" in English either. We don't use the pronunciation of other Hebrew names found in the Bible. So why should we use Yahweh? God would not be pleased that his name has been removed from the scriptures. We make sure and follow Jesus command to let God's name be sanctified. Bible translators and other theologians try to cast doubt on God's name. But we, as Jehovah's Witnesses, make sure that this name will not be lost. We have restored God's name over 7000 times in the scriptures. Other Bible translators have removed the name and inserted "Lord" or "God" into the bible. That is not honoring Jesus command.

    4. You are right. Proof is important. And Jehovah's Witnesses have shown themselves to be some of the most loving and moral people on earth. We hear about it all the time at our district conventions. "If only everyone was a Jehovah's Witness...there would be no more war!"

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    Does anyone else think that CA has come here to count time ?

    YES I AM!!! 2 hours and counting! I've gotta keep the hours up so I can continue to be used in the congregation. No one under 10 hours a month can be used for special privileges.

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    Aren’t there other religious organizations that feed the poor, help the weak and the sick that are actually doing the work that Jesus asked them to do?

    Yes there are. But they are saving people for only a short time. These same people will eventually grow old and die. But what WE give them is life giving knowledge. While they may suffer for the present, they willl get their reward in paradise earth if they only accept Jehovah's salvation. We could choose to focus our efforts on helping the poor, but then we would not be able to spend the time we do in the Kingdom message which is of much greater importance. THIS is showing true love. If I could give you 5 years of life, would that be MORE or LESS loving than being able to give you eternal life?

  • Ding
    Ding
    No, Israel is not a restoration of God's people. They were rejected once they rejected the Messiah, Jesus Christ. After their rejection, Jehovah adopted the Gentiles as his people. Now the Jews and Gentiles were to be one brotherhood and function as the Israel of God. Fleshly Israel no longer has a purpose in Jehovah's eternal purpose.

    Please reread Romans 11:11-29.

    This applies to fleshy Israel.

  • kepler
    kepler

    Christ Alone,

    You said:

    "The Apostles served as the Governing Body in the 1st century. Then the great apostacy set in and true Christianity was largely missing through the ages. There were glimmers of light as individuals attempted to shine truth."

    Don't know what has been going on with you since you were counseling Kate82 a few weeks ago - and then our discussion about Daniel. But either you are pulling people's legs or acting very bi-polar. Are you in or out? Or are you trying to get a rise out of people?

    As to the "great apostacy", I admit that that is an interesting intellectual concept on which to build a Protestant foundation. But it is nebulous at best, only describing concepts that dissenters of the 18th century English world disagreed with vs. previous generations. Something to trump linkage of ordination and priesthood until they could concoct some of their own such as anointed numbers and governing boards.

    In all the idolatry of the Biblical text as it came to that generation, the very notion of a great apostacy also saws away on the limb on which Biblical inerrancy stands - the development of a canon. I suppose there is a year where everything that was in the non-JW bloodline diverged into a futility? Calendar year 99? After Constantine consolidated things? When it comes to events related to Temple wrecking balls, timing is refined to and predicted to the last hair. So this part is comparatively vague and "under-prophesied'. But if is so, then is this really a successful correction, since it is just in time to load a remnant of humanity on a barge to paradise earth after a lightless two millenia no fault of anyone therein born? Or does God really despise all of human kind as much as the guiding lights of the supposed 1919 beauty contest do?

    It was one of the greatest early achievements of the era of the great apostacy. The apostates had to sort through the numerous documents with claims of "Yes, I knew your name sake very well, and also the apostle Paul, or I ghost wrote the memoirs of Mary..." And those that would like to condemn every one in the councils who deliberated over these and vetted the documents - the people viewed as agents of Satan... they bought into it. For if there was no continuity and the scripture was in someone else's hands, then what more can be said.

    As for missionary work, it was centuries before the Protestant reformation gave it any thought, trailing Dominicans, the Society of Jesus and others. If someone in the non-English speaking world cares a wit about JW views on the Bible and salvation, such missionaries are the ones to thank for ready receptions in South America, Asia or the Pacific - even in parts of the mideast where year books don't even care to admit that the populations any longer exist. As to early Protestant efforts, their successes were smaller and their mistakes were just as calamitous. Ever hear of Prince Phillip's War? Just a native American gathering inferences from your Puritan and Congregational predecessors in the 17th century, having them read the exploits of Joshua in the Promised Land and duly noting that the guys with big belt buckles thought they were in the same. That's the war that my instructors who came to my house gave full endorsement to - whatever Joshua needed to get done. How did they know that was holy? The same way they know Christ invisibly returned in '14. They were told. What will they be told next?

    Subsequently when Rutherford publishes his yearbooks of voyages over seas, he is harassing with pamphlets communities that already have Bibles, literacy and institutions. He needed another ten years to figure out doctrines and translations to distinguish his movement from others aside from his notion of importance. And now, thanks to his vision, practically everything I encounter in the present day JW system, I see as almost a perfect analog for the Soviet one of the mid twentieth century. Read the Truth/Pravda, attend the party meetings, march in the rallies, act in the theocratic theatre, inform on and conform to everybody - and take away the party billet and you're dead.

    For a while I could laugh, but it isn't funny any more. Just a pathetic cultural bias.

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    Please reread Romans 11:11-29.

    This applies to fleshy Israel.

    The term "All Israel" in Romans 11:26 refers to all the Israel of God. It is no longer fleshly Israel in particular. It can include fleshly Israel if they accept Jehovah. But "all Israel" also refers to the Gentiles that come to Jehovah and his organization.

    Paul makes this clear in Romans 2:28,29 where he says that no on is a Jew just because of his outward flesh. He is made a spiritual Israelite by Jehovah. Galatians 3:28,29 makes it even more crystal clear. There IS no Jew or Greek. We are all saved by Christ and are therefore Abrahams offspring.

  • mamochan13
    mamochan13

    CA - I'm finding this a bit disorienting. You are doing a good job, though! I just wanted to comment that I really liked your analogies and your explanations about the use of Jehovah on the other thread. Worth bringing over here and using them to refute your JW argument above.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    I didn't know that conversing with Apostates and df'd dubs qualified one for priviledges. Perhaps u should let us know what hall u attend so your elder body can be edified on your stratgy for rightiousness

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