Yes, for good reason appellation Father is dominant in the NT over Jehovah

by QC 48 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • prologos
    prologos

    mp thank you, your comments,questions are well taken.

    I used the President Calvin Coolidge quote:

    The Business of America is BUSINESS. to illustrate

    The Main thrust of Exodus 19:6. which showed the INTENT of the Law covenant, at which task the nation failed. similarly,

    Not every American has to be an T Edison, or a Tesla* or a Henry Ford, or Otto* or Diesel* or Whittle* or a Carnegy or Rothschild* or ---

    Like every American (unlike most Europeans, particularly British subjects), anybody could make good for himself, rise to the very top, become Queen or President.

    Ex.19 implies that every Israelite should have made it his business to reflect the glory of the Creator (if any).

    This privilege was not limited to a few, certainly not what WT BtS sees as the final fulfillment of this in the 144 000 elite Israelites of God.

    sorry for the off topic rant.

    *just a few examples of the non-Amercan contribution to the business of business. Diesel, the Paris based motor developer, Whittle the English inventor of the Jet engine. Tesla the Balkan - born father of Our real, AC electrical systems. --

  • mP
    mP

    PROLOGOS

    I used the President Calvin Coolidge quote:

    The Business of America is BUSINESS. to illustrate

    MP:

    CC can say whatever he wants that doesnt make it true. Many countries in Europe have been centers of business before America was even a country. I dont understand why you mentioned this anyway. What is the point of such a statement ?

  • mP
    mP

    PROLOGOS:

    Not every American has to be an T Edison, or a Tesla* or a Henry Ford, or Otto* or Diesel* or Whittle* or a Carnegy or Rothschild* or ---

    Like every American (unlike most Europeans, particularly British subjects), anybody could make good for himself, rise to the very top, become Queen or President.

    MP:

    Five of the best countries on earth share the Queen. All of them are better than America and take care of their people. Free medicine, hospital, education, pensions, unemployment and more. SO if your down on your luck you still will be fine. This is unlike America where if you get sick and end up in hospital for any considerable time your family is ruined. We have peace, no ghettos, no guns and the closest police station is over 20 mins away and i dont care. I have probably seen the poilce drive by twice this year and it doesnt matter because we have pretty good peace.

    You need to step out of your illusion and look at the real world, there are much better places than America.

    So i cant become the soveriegn, so what. Queen Elizabeth II has done a fantastic job, under her guidance these countries keep on getting better. So they are not perfect, but there are over 200 other lands where people are dying to join us in any of her dominions.

    I dont want to be the soveriegn, and neither do i want to be President. Theres no honour in being President, only scumbags of the worst kind want to try for that.

  • mP
    mP

    PROLOGOS
    Ex.19 implies that every Israelite should have made it his business to reflect the glory of the Creator (if any).

    MP:

    I dont see that in Ex. I fail to understand why God would care if you had more or less gold, considering he could make as much or as little as he wished at any time, after all he created the universe.

  • prologos
    prologos

    mP thank you for your replies.

    All I wanted to do, is make sense of the term in the Law covenant that Israel would be "a KINGDOM (monarchy) of priests".--- please remember that

    At the time of Moses, there was no Royal Dynasty of David among the twelve tribes and even

    Each firstborn was supposed to fill priestly duty and NOT JUST THE tribe of LEVI.

    I did not want to extoll the US as a paragon of perfection. I have lived in 7 other countries and each has its own charms and flavor(u)s*. and radically changing forms of governemnt.

    The story of Israel was unique and Amerca is unique, You can pick Bacteria* and Shangrila*. but: You are haggling here about an illustration.

    I would like to learn more about the "Father" or originator mentioned in the topic above. really

    * two fictional places to offend no one, although Bacteria went from Monarchy to Democracy to Rightwing Dictator to extreme Left Dictator to Democracy in one Century. it would not be a fitting analogy to a stable "Kingdom of priests.

  • mP
    mP

    PROLOGOS

    The story of Israel was unique and Amerca is unique,

    MP:

    Banks as we have them today were invented in Italy, the work bank comes from one of the italian languages and means bench which is where the original money was leant.

    Amsterdam had a stock market, you may have heard of the tulip craze and that was years before America even existed.

    This commentary is broken as it is pointless.

  • mP
    mP

    Prologos:

    At the time of Moses, there was no Royal Dynasty of David among the twelve tribes and even

    Each firstborn was supposed to fill priestly duty and NOT JUST THE tribe of LEVI.

    mP:

    This is again down right wrong. The priesthood was given toe Aaron and his sons. Aaron & Moses were Levites. The reason Korah and his supporters were killed and eatten by the eaeth was because they dared suggest a different arrangement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohen

    The status of priest kohen was conferred on Aaron, the brother of Moses, and his sons as an everlasting covenant [2] During the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness and until the Holy Temple was built in Jerusalem , the priests performed their priestly service in the portable Tabernacle ( Numbers 1:47-54 , Numbers 3:5-13 , Numbers 3:44-51 , Numbers 8:5–26 ) Their duties involved offering the daily and Jewish holiday sacrifices , and blessing the people in a Priestly Blessing , later also known as Nesiat Kapayim ("Raising of the hands").

    Its obvsious the arrangement existed from that time and did not appear later as you imply. Aaron has the exclusive monopoly.

    The Bible clearly shows your statement of first borns being priests as wrong.

  • mP
    mP

    PRO

    All I wanted to do, is make sense of the term in the Law covenant that Israel would be "a KINGDOM (monarchy) of priests".--- please remember tha

    MP:

    In the old days the king was the chief priest. Your statement is implying that Israel would be kings over everyone else. This is little man syndrone, where they wish and write they are the destined to rule everyone but in reality they are a small insignificant nation. I suppose its hard when Rome, Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Greece and many others take over your land with impunity.

    When you read priest it really means "king or ruler" and all the goodies that go with that.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Searcher:

    It's easy to repeat the false teaching that Judas never partook of the emblems of the New Covenant - but read Luke's account (22:19-23) for a bit more detail, and you will see the inspired account confirms that he did partake!!

    He was not present for Christ's revealing of the Kingdom Covenant, something for which no emblems were used.

    What I find curious is how the synoptics and the gospel of John seem ambivalent about the subject:

    Matthew 26:20-30 places the discussion about betrayal before the emblem passing. But when Judas left is not precisely stated.

    Mark 14:17-26 is very similar to Matthew's account. The precise point at which Judas leaves is not stated. But the discussion of Judas' betraying Jesus is before the discusion of the emblems

    Luke 22:19-22 would seem to imply that Judas was there, although, again, the precise point of his leaving is unstated. Yet Luke states early on that he has arranged things "with accuracy" and "in logical order," which may or may not include precise chronological ordering. The Greek terms do not necessarily include that idea. (Luke 1:3,4) I posted some research from a commentary about the subject of chronological ordering in Luke here. (see my post # 492. You have to scroll a ways down.)

    John doesn't mention the passing of the emblems at the Last Supper (John 13-17), although he does mention Judas' leaving fairly early in the account. But the precise timing of Judas' leaving is unstated.

    John also has the discussion in chapter 6 that would seem to give meaning to the emblems to his readers. And that chapter also mentions Judas as the eventual betrayer of Jesus. But again, no clear distinction is made concerning him and the emblems. (John 6:70-1)

    If anything is clear about the combined weight of these accounts, it is that whether Judas partook or not was never an issue. The gospel writers never saw fit to specifically settle that.

    Contrast that with the Society's insistance that Judas was not there. That contrast alone tells me that the Society does not correctly (or fully, or both) understand the significance to the Memorial. They see the Memorial as an issue of 'who will rule with Christ.' And since Jesus described those who would 'sit on thrones' with him as those who 'have stuck with him in his trials,' that would preclude Judas. (Luke 22:28-30)

    But the gospel writers, knowing what Jesus said about those who would rule with him (Compare also Matt 19:27-29; 20:20-23), left the matter of Judas' partaking open to discussion. They (the gospel writers) obviously saw things differently than the Society does. That contrast in viewpoints clearly marks the WT viewpoint as deficient.

    (As an after thought, notice also in Matthew 20:20-23 Jesus saying that particular positioning in the Kingdom was not his to decide. And contrast that with the definitiveness of his command to partake of the emblems ["Take this . . . and eat/drink"]. That contrast is subtle, but is also an indication that the emblems are not about 'who will rule with Christ.')

    Take Care

  • prologos
    prologos

    mP: re Numbers 3. verse 12:

    "--I am taken the Levites -- IN PLACE OF ALL THE FIRSTBORN--. verse 41:

    "----the Levites in PLACE of all the Firstborn---" verse 45:

    "-- take the Levites --in place of all the Firstborn--.

    It is a recurring theme of the scriptures (see Rev.14 "firstfruits") that the firstborn have priestly duties, and the ORIGINAL premise after the passover/exodus was so. only LATER was the first born-deal abandoned in favor of the INSTITUTIONALIZED Aaronic priesthood.

    similarly, only by popular demand (or sheer force), was the HUMAN KINGSHIP of Benjamin/Judah LATER brought into existence. so:

    Please leave the categorical judgement of what is right and wrong to better times. for Balaam's ass did not have it's last word yet.

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