Yes, for good reason appellation Father is dominant in the NT over Jehovah (page 5)

QC

cat,

Thanks for the clarity. It's all good.

I keep thinking I'm going to hit some resistance at the Memorial. Am I being paranoid?

mP

PRO:
mP: re Numbers 3. verse 12:
"--I am taken the Levites -- IN PLACE OF ALL THE FIRSTBORN--. verse 41:
"----the Levites in PLACE of all the Firstborn---" verse 45:
"-- take the Levites --in place of all the Firstborn--.

MP:

Im understood your comment to refer to the times of Moses and onwards. Given before Moses God never spoke to the Jews it doesnt matter what customs they had, but thnks for the scripture. But i can see your point, i just thought only Levites were preists.

Still i highly doubt the entire Levite tribe were really priests. A poor nation like Israel back then could hardly afford to have 10% of men as priests. Given there was only one temple in Jerusalem, where sacrifices were valid, what did these guys do ? Its madness to think the entire population travelled to jerusalem every time they made a mistake to pay their "fine".

PRO:

It is a recurring theme of the scriptures (see Rev.14 "firstfruits") that the firstborn have priestly duties, and the ORIGINAL premise after the passover/exodus was so. only LATER was the first born-deal abandoned in favor of the INSTITUTIONALIZED Aaronic priesthood.

MP:

Revelation is garbage, just ask Martin Luther or the Eastern Orthodox who both didnt want it in the Canon.

PRO:

similarly, only by popular demand (or sheer force), was the HUMAN KINGSHIP of Benjamin/Judah LATER brought into existence. so:
Please leave the categorical judgement of what is right and wrong to better times. for Balaam's ass did not have it's last word yet.

MP:

Im unsure what this is supposed to me. Is this a prophecy or your opinion. Please give scriptures.

prologos

mP thank you:

On novel, human kingship in Israel: 1 Samu-el 8: 6, 7 aand context;

"--do give us a KING--"

"--Listen to the voice of THE PEOPLE-- It is I (Jehovah) they have rejected for being KING over them"--

Human kingship was by popular demand.

mP in all this we are discussing scriptural stories as we read them today. wether the whole thing, or part of it are or will be ultimately relevant is another matter.

on better times: I am hopefull that our understanding in all domains will improve, if we are not going to go the way of the dinosaurs.

In that process we are bound to be enlightened about creation. Even if the talking snake, ass, etc are fables, there are some profound truth, insights in the scriptures and research will be rewarded I am sure.

That is when we talk about " the appelation of FATHER in the NT", we are going BEYOND in time of the beginning of Creation and its principles and princes.

mP

PRO

all this we are discussing scriptural stories as we read them today. wether the whole thing, or part of it are or will be ultimately relevant is another matter.

MP:

The problem is you start of fine and literal but you then introduce new ideas, concepts and modernize things that simply is not in the text.

The only thing we can do is take the text for what it says and not make up lies. The BIble doesnt mention dinosaurs, but so what it doesnt really go into any detail about the planet before man. TO pretend that it alludes to them is dishonest, its far more credible to say that topic is not covered.

DATA-DOG

Has anyone ever tried tored through the Appendix of the NWT, conerning the divine name?! It gives me a headache. It seems to me that " Jehovah " is just thrown in to replace Kyrios whenever, with no ryme or reason. At other times they leave Theos as " GOD ". Why not put in Jehovah in those instances as well?

It seems like they are purposely trying to obscure Christ. Either that, or they were just so blinded by selling Rutherford's brand that they got carried away. I hate to think that they would purposely fail to honor the Son as the honor the Father. I will try to list some examples when I get time.

QC,

Are you partaking at the KH? I am celebrating at home to spare my wife some anxiety. She is nowhere near ready to adress the issue we discuss here. If I partake at the KH then that opens a whole other can of worms. There are just to many wrong understandings in the WTBTS to mention. Plus you are not allowed to have any private beliefs. It's a mess. If you have the circumstances to partake at the KH, go for it! Let us know what happens.

lost

QC. I must confess I haven't even got started on this yet, lol, it's been a whirlwind and my poor brain has been fried, lol.

I will get started on it now. I think I am going to get buried though and need lots of help to grasp it.

many thanks

kind regards

lost

mP

PRO:

Human kingship was by popular demand.

MP:
Not quite thats what the King and priests say in their journals which we call books of the Bible. Its hard to believe the poor farmer far far away from Jerusalem who can barely grow enough for his family really gives a damn or is aware of what goes on in Jerusalem. The poor barstards simply would not have the time to worry about kingship. Its unreasonable to think that they would want to give their best gold or other meager positions so someone could build a fancy palace for themselves when they are so poor.

prologos

mp: the original theme proposed by QC was that all worthy christians are equal, united, should partake.

Just like the original family-based attempts to contact the creator (first born of every family, tribe was to look after spitituality), so all Christians are one family.

Jesus strongly discouraged power hungry individuals. often.

The scriptures I cited above show the power grab by the two tribes, Levi and benjamin/Juda.

similarly with the Clergy vs Laiety and --- not to be outdone:

The WT BtS society with the erroneous "other sheep" vs. "remnant/F&DS/ GB of 1919 vintage" power trip.

We know the mighty Dinosaurs existed and went extinct, we have the fossils. only one anciently fossilized fish species survived.

So: history teaches that to lay low and deep gives protection.

Sticking your neck out in prominence will precede your fall. listen (to whom it may apply)

If there is one father we are all brothers, sons.

Math 12:50.--- not so -(falsely)- called anointed only.

egalite', fraternite', maternite'.

mP

Pro:

mp: the original theme proposed by QC was that all worthy christians are equal, united, should partake.

MP:

Im sorry this is nonsense. Jesus spends many much time telling slaves and the poor to pay taxes and remain good and obedient while completely refusing to give an direction for the rich to better their servants in any way. Then we have the other champion of xniaty, Paul, who in Philemon tells a poor slave to go back to his terrible life rather than helping him. What a scum bag. Imagine if we transposed Paul and the story to relatively modern Germany and our hero told the jews to go back to Hitler and not to worry because everything was fine.

That sort of attitude is one of the big xian lies. YOu can repeat that garbage but its xianities shame that Jesus was not good, or a champion of the poor but a Roman Stooge.

There is no equality in xianity, by definition women are less than man. Paul tells us in timothy that women are too stupid and should remain quiet in church and if theyhave any questions they should ask their hubbies at home. Paul and his xianity is no better than the multi class system that was present in ancient times. If anything it was worse.

Yes, for good reason appellation Father is dominant in the NT over Jehovah

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