WHAT REASON DOES THE GOVERNING BODY HAVE TO DENY JESUS MEDIATOR-SHIP FOR EVERYONE?
by ÁrbolesdeArabia 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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ÁrbolesdeArabia
@bobcat: great research and answers to the OP thread! Bless you!
@Splash:, ty too for your efforts, I wish others attending the Kingdom Halls were scholars like brothers and sisters on JWN.
@designs: The GB does think they are the Levites, relying on the "other sheep" (tribes) to pay their way. The Levites were actually performing a valid function to Israel as a whole, not worrying about splintered ideas "generation", "Seven-Times", "Gentile Times".
I like how James Wood makes this question so simple, they desire to replace Jesus Christ so "rank and file" members must go between them to attain forgiveness. I wish I had the privilege of meeting Sam Dunlap like you. I am on my second reading of C.O.C. and the way Ray Franz presents brother Dunlap, their kind is what could have saved the Organization from the Governing Body Zombies
@OldGoat: The New Covenant is "all-inclusive", so JWs are allowing the GB to remove Jesus Christ's atonement "Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, you block the entrance to the Kingdom Of God, you won't go in yourselves but you prevent others from entering!" It's up to us to learn the truth and push past fake guardians of the Gate!
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Fernando
*** w90 10/1 p. 23 par. 9 Be Doers of the Word, Not Hearers Only ***
Jesus warns those who walk this road: “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.” (Matthew 7:15) This description fitted the Pharisees perfectly. (Matthew 23:27, 28) They “seated themselves in the seat of Moses,” claiming to speak for God while following the traditions of men.—Matthew 23:2.
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designs
Fernando- The Wt. sure has kicked money collection into high gear. Cash is King!
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prologos
sauerkraut you old goat. right answer: Control. and enhanced status not by merit but by putting others down.
really the NEW covenant is for all christians, the 12 tribes of the Israel of God. The KINGDOM covenant is for those that will be with Christ Re.7 +2=Rev.14. priest and kings BUT ONLY IN HEAVEN, not here in the congregation.
analog in Israel of old: the Law covenant was for ALL members of ALL tribes
the additional Davidic covenant was for only the kings
The additional priestly covenant was only with the levites.
Jesus is the mediator of the NEW COVENANT (forgiveness of sins and Gods law in our hearts.) is for ALL Christians, some of which will be called into the kingdom covenant and rule with him AFTER their resurrection. bebeorean.com blessings
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Sauerkraut
prologos: sauerkraut you old goat.
Mmmeeeehhh.
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Old Goat
Some of you seem to think I support Watchtower doctrine. All I did was explain the belief. You need to ask yourself why a simple explanation would cause you to be offensive. If you finally bother to read Jeremiah, you will see that the New Covenant is only with Israel. Many Christians take that to be "The Israel of God," the body of Christ.
That understanding is much wider than the Watchtower has it. No? But it still leaves out all those who reject Christianity. Others, such as the Church of God - General Conference (Atlanta) take this to apply to literal Jews. If that's true, it's still not an all inclusive covenant because it leaves out all Gentiles.
Even the Watchtower believes that Christ's sacrifice is for all, though they limit the new covenant to the 144k. If you don't know this, you were never much of a Witness. That's very basic Watchtower doctrine.
I don't see this as about control. Maybe you gave up your right to think and your ability to reason when you became a Witness, but I did not. It's about skewed, narrowly focused doctrine. How, please tell me, does Watchtower teaching on the New Covenant control anyone? No one from Bethel visits each congregation and says, "Well, you can partake of the emblems, but you cannot." If you feel or felt controlled by the Watchtower, then you failed to feel responsible to God and Christ.
If we move this discussion into their very unscriptural Governing Body doctrine, then we can discuss the desire to control. That doctrine isn't rational, and it's not scriptural. Its current expression reminds me of Eli's sons dipping their over large forks in the sacrifices.
All religions have control mechanisms. The Watchtower is no different. Some control mechanisms are more or less scriptural. The Watchtower's structure does not approach the New Testament standard. The Bible has it (in Hebrews chapter 1) that God's voice to us in the last days is through Christ. The Watchtower has it that God's voice is the Governing Body.
The recent change isn't exactly new. In the late 1960s they tried to introduce that through, of all things, a written review. The negative feed-back they received was overwhelming and the matter was dropped. The focus then was the Society's directors. The Watchtower's governance structure is a distorted type of Episcopalianism. The Bible presents a semi-autonomous Congregationalism. I'm not going to discuss that at length, nor am I going to debate Watchtower New Covenant doctrine with you. They have it wrong. But some of you have misrepresented it. Misrepresenting it detracts from any valid argument. Doesn't it?
You're parroting Ray Franz without doing the research. If you're going to object to this doctrine, do it effectively - and accurately. The initial question asked why the Watchtower taught what it did. I answered that question. If you continue filled with anger over what you see as Watchtower abuse, then they do still control you. Substitute reason for anger. And stop calling me names.
I became a Witness in 1948. I've seen many changes and not a little abuse by those in authority. I handled that in various ways, usually privately. That stopped being possible some few years ago. While I differ doctrinally in some areas, it is the abusive, self-worshiping nature of the current crop of administrators that has left me on the outside wondering how I managed to accept all of this for so long.
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Zagor Almanah
Synagogue of Satan, that is what it is mentioned in a book of Revelation Chp 3 vers 9. They say they are Jews and are not but do lie.
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Bobcat
Old Goat:
Thank you for your posts. They provided me some opportunity to reflect on whether I was being too judgmental of the Society for what might otherwise be viewed as just a quirky belief, which the WT hasn't cornered the market of.
But whether the Society's view of 'who is in the new covenant' originally started just as someone's opinion, I still see it being used to support their ruling power structure. For example:
The F&DS doctrine (up till the annual meeting) places the 'anointed' as in charge. The organization book basically says you must trust them as you would Jehovah and Jesus. And parallel with that is how they would speak of any claiming to be 'anointed' in the congregations - which basically marginalized such ones. This effectively shifted focus onto the GB alone.
The new 'understanding' seems very much a reaction to the increasing numbers of 'anointed' partakers which doesn't jive with their earlier explanation that they should be decreasing.
Many other articles use the idea of a few anointed as the basis for unquestioning obedience of everyone else.
For example, this one on Isaiah 45:14:
*** w08 1/15 p. 26 pars. 6-8 Counted Worthy to Be Guided to Fountains of Waters of Life ***
6 The willing support given to anointed Christians by their companions of the other sheep was foretold by the prophet Isaiah. He wrote: "This is what Jehovah has said: ‘The unpaid laborers of Egypt and the merchants of Ethiopia and the Sabeans, tall men, will themselves come over even to you, and yours they will become. Behind you they will walk.'" (Isa. 45:14) In a symbolic way, Christians with an earthly hope today walk behind the anointed slave class and its Governing Body, following their leadership. As "unpaid laborers," the other sheep willingly and wholeheartedly expend their strength and their resources in support of the worldwide preaching work that Christ assigned to his anointed followers on earth.-Acts 1:8; Rev. 12:17.
7 As they lend their support to their anointed brothers, members of the great crowd are being trained as the foundation of the new human society that will exist after Armageddon. That foundation must be solid and stable, and its members must be willing and able to carry out the direction of the Master. Each Christian is being given the opportunity to demonstrate that he can be used by the King, Christ Jesus. By exercising faith and displaying loyalty now, he shows that he will respond well when the King gives him directions in the new world.
The Great Crowd Prove Their Faith
8 The other sheep companions of the congregation of anointed Christians prove their faith in various ways. First, they support the anointed in proclaiming the good news of God's Kingdom. (Matt. 24:14; 28:19, 20) Second, they willingly submit themselves to the direction provided by the Governing Body.-Heb. 13:17; read Zechariah 8:23.
Here is an example involving the parable of the sheep and goats:
*** w09 10/15 pp. 15-17 pars. 15-18 "You Are My Friends" ***
15 Read Matthew 25:31-40. Jesus called those who would make up the faithful slave class his brothers. In the illustration about the separating of the sheep from the goats, Jesus clearly states that he takes personally the way we treat his brothers. In fact, he said that the determining factor that would distinguish a sheep from a goat would be the way an individual treated even "the least of these [his] brothers." Therefore, the primary way that those with the earthly hope demonstrate their desire to be friends with Christ is by supporting the faithful slave class.
16 If you hope to live on earth under God's Kingdom, how can you express your friendship toward Christ's brothers? Let us consider just three ways. First, by wholeheartedly sharing in the preaching work. Christ commanded his brothers to preach the good news worldwide. (Matt. 24:14) However, the remaining ones of Christ's brothers on earth today would be hard-pressed to shoulder that responsibility without the assistance of their other sheep companions. Really, each time members of the other sheep class engage in the preaching work, they help Christ's brothers to fulfill their sacred commission. The faithful and discreet slave class deeply appreciates this act of friendship, as does Christ.
17 A second way that those of the other sheep class can help Christ's brothers is by financially supporting the preaching work. Jesus encouraged his followers to make friends for themselves by means of "the unrighteous riches." (Luke 16:9) Not that we can buy friendship with Jesus or Jehovah. Rather, by using our material assets to further Kingdom interests, we prove our friendship and love, not just in word, but "in deed and truth." (1 John 3:16-18) We provide such financial support when we engage in the preaching work, when we donate money toward the construction and maintenance of our meeting facilities, and when we contribute funds toward the worldwide preaching work. Whether the amount we contribute is small or great, both Jehovah and Jesus certainly appreciate our cheerful giving.-2 Cor. 9:7.
18 A third way that all of us prove that we are friends of Christ is by cooperating with the direction provided by congregation elders. These men are appointed by holy spirit under Christ's direction. (Eph. 5:23) "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive," wrote the apostle Paul. (Heb. 13:17) At times, we may find it a challenge to obey the Bible-based direction given to us by the local elders. We are likely aware of their imperfections, and this may distort our view of their counsel. Still, Christ, the Head of the congregation, is pleased to use these imperfect men. Therefore, the way we react to their authority directly influences our friendship with Christ. When we overlook the faults of the elders and joyfully follow their direction, we prove our love for Christ.
On top of all that, there is the principle or rule set out by Jesus in the sermon on the mount:
(Matthew 7:1-5) . . ."Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; 2 for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU. 3 Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother's eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to extract the straw from your eye'; when, look! a rafter is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First extract the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to extract the straw from your brother's eye.
The Society incessantly condemns 'Christendom's' teaching as lies defaming God. And JWs who dare to disagree with the Society on doctrinal matters are judged as 'mentally diseased' apostates. Using Jesus 'rule of thumb,' would it be unfair to measure the Society with their own yardstick?
Having said that, I still want to express appreciation for your viewpoint, because it is easy to go overboard on criticism. And a voice of reason interjected into the discussion is always welcome, as far as I'm concerned.
Take Care and don't stop posting.
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jhine
Hi , I have followed this thread with interest , especially "goat " , you seem to have real insight into J. W. teaching . You asked what does the denying of Jesus' mediatorshp for everyone have to do with control . I have always understood (as someone outside of the org ) that the 144,000 were the only ones guaranteed salvation and that the rest had to wait and see if they had been good enough ie. if they had done enough work for the org. They always deny that this means that they have to earn salvation , which is of course not biblical as salvation is God's free gift . We are saved for good works prepared for us beforehand ,not by them . This does seem to me to be part of the control mechanism that because the rank and file are not under Jesus' mediatorship they have to work their socks off for the org. to try to "buy " their salvation . If I am wrong I look forward to being corrected as I really want to understand this issue trinity Janet