WHAT REASON DOES THE GOVERNING BODY HAVE TO DENY JESUS MEDIATOR-SHIP FOR EVERYONE?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia 61 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Think About It
    Think About It

    Never read this thread until now. Very interesting.

    I think the WTS flubbed the dub when they emphasized the Jesus is Mediator of only the 144,000 doctrine. The WTS should have just broad stroked it to be Jesus is still the Mediator for all faithful JW's, but technically only the 144,000 are in the New Covenant. I actually found it offensive for them to be so dogmatic in their view of this. IMO.....these types of teachings started pushing the JW's more into the cult catagory.

    Old Goat.....I like the way you write to explain things.

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  • Wholly
    Wholly

    Bookmarked. Thank you again, Bobcat!

    I also read somewhere recently about the name "jesus" meaning hail zeus. The messiah's actual name being "Jehoshua" which has been denied to his followers. Is this a deliberate attempt to misdirect his servants originating with the Roman Empire oh so long ago?

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  • blondie
    blondie

    Briefly,

    Moses = mediator of covenant = Israelites only

    Jesus = mediator of covenant = spiritual Israelites only

    (just reporting not supporting)

    But 1 Timothy 2:5 talks about prayer, mediating that is and several times the WTS makes that application.

    WTS speaks out of both sides of their mouth.

    (1 Timothy 2:1-8) 2 I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness. 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth. 8 Therefore I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands, apart from wrath and debates.

    ------

    What was Paul discussing in this scripture, prayer, and in conjuction with Jesus mediatorship.

    Or in this article, and the next, it is clear that the WTS connects prayer with Jesus mediatorship.

    *** w04 4/1 p. 32 Should We Call Upon Angels for Help? ***However, angels do not serve as intercessors who bring human prayers to the throne of the Most High. God has determined that prayers be addressed to him in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, who said: “No matter what you ask the Father in my name he might give it to you.”—John 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:5.

    *** w02 7/1 p. 8 Worship God “in Spirit” ***Is it proper to pray to Jesus’ earthly mother, Mary, or to particular “saints,” asking them to intercede with God in one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: “There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Timothy 2:5.

    *** w97 2/15 p. 28 Agreement Between “God’s Temple” and Idols in Greece? ***Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to “saints” in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: “You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.’” (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.” And the apostle Paul stated: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.”—John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.

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  • sosoconfused
    sosoconfused

    SO I have to ask a quick question on this subject because it is kind of picking at my wife here as we read this. So... we pray through Jesus name since he is our mediator. Correct?

    But if members of the great crowd are not part of that covenant then Jesus would not be our mediator... Correct?

    If jesus is not our mediator as a member of the great crowd, then why would we pray to God in JESUS NAME?

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  • sd-7
    sd-7
    if they dont even know who the fds ,how are they going to know who jesus is mediator for?

    mr. glass

    "But now that we know who you are, I know who I am. I'm not a mistake. It all makes sense!"

    Couldn't resist that one. Ha!

    But see, the Governing Body has like 3 different covenants ("covenant for a kingdom", "new covenant", and I forget the third one), they're like totally confused to begin with. The only sense, as Splash's quotes show, Jesus is Mediator for everyone is that everyone can approach God in prayer through Jesus. But clearly that is the only sense in which non-anointed JWs can consider Jesus as a Mediator of sorts.

    But NOT in the sense of being in the new covenant. Being "beneficiaries", which in its most literal sense would mean...they don't get any benefits until all the anointed die, just like a beneficiary named to someone's bank account. But it's not your account, and the account holder could always have you removed as a beneficiary. So it is with the 'great crowd'. If they don't obey the anointed, they therefore get their name pulled off the list by the anointed and lose any benefits that would come from the new covenant, as the benefits trickle down via the anointed.

    Remember, the Society has explicity stated that the anointed will help Jesus apply the value of the ransom to the sins of mankind. So then, that makes them co-mediators, somehow able to do with Jesus' blood what Jesus apparently cannot do (and hasn't already done once for all time, despite what Hebrews 9 says), which is forgive sins permanently.

    They had to build on the 2-class system somehow, so I guess by playing their usual game of Scriptural Scrabble, they built their beliefs around what they wanted to teach and then picked isolated verses to support those beliefs.

    --sd-7

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  • villagegirl
    villagegirl

    Old Goat - Show me ONE number in the Book of Revelation that was NOT symbolic. Either the numbers are symbolic or they are not, show me anywhere in the Bilble where a literal number is mixed in with symbolic numbers.

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  • leaving_quietly
    leaving_quietly

    Moved comment to its own thread here (realized I may have been hijacking this topic unintentionally):

    http://jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/249061/1/On-the-subject-of-the-anointed

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  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Old Goat is correct that the Watchtower had to introduce this due to the New Covenant only applying to the 144,000. I have discussed this at jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php

    To coincide with his moving the Great Crowd from heaven to earth Rutherford made the claim that the New Covenant only applied to the 144,000. In 1934 Rutherford limited who Jesus could mediate for to just the 144,000 Spiritual Israelites.

    "Christ Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant toward his own brethren, that is to say, spiritual Israel, during the period of time God is taking out from the nations a people for his name." Watchtower 1934 Apr 1 p.104

    It was during this period that Rutherford introduced the concept that only 144,000 go to heaven. The Watchtower was forced into the position of limiting the new covenant to the 144,000 because the Bible states that those under the covenant receive a heavenly resurrection.

    Hebrews 10:16-22 "'This is the covenant that I shall covenant toward them after those days,' says Jehovah. 'I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,'" 17 [it says afterwards:] "And I shall by no means call their sins and their lawless deeds to mind anymore." 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. 19 Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water.. . .

    1 Corinthians 15:51-57 "We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. 56 The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law."

    Being determined to prove that only 144,000 go to heaven the Watchtower had no alternative than say that the New Covenant only applies to the 144,000. The Watchtower removed Jesus from being mankind's Mediator in order to support an inaccurate doctrine, that of an earthly resurrection. There is not a single scripture that discusses an earthly resurrection.

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  • ÁrbolesdeArabia
    ÁrbolesdeArabia

    Not sure about your area, we have had wave after wave of funerals and deaths of JWs in my area. More JWs my age and younger are now accepting the fact they probably won't see the "End". Imagine all those 35s to 45s who have no faith in Watchtower Theology about "The End Is Neigh!", will they be doubting other core doctrines of less significance to the daily lives of JWs like "144,000 (Mostly White Americans will go to Heaven.) taught by Rutherford?

    We use to believe without thinking this one through, using Watchtower logic mostly White Americans are the humans who would rule in Heaven. Look back on the demographics of the composition of early Bible Students who claimed to go to Heaven, what special sign did these individuals display other than saying they were the chosen people?

    Jesus is the Mediator to all those White Americans and a few thousand Early Christians. We in turn have a mediator of Elderly White Bible Students with the Early Christians holding a minority vote in all matters.

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  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    They are not denying anyone anything.

    The only ones who need a mediator are the ones who are to have something mediated.

    Mediator means: aperson who mediates , especiallybetween parties at variance.

    Why does everyone need a mediator when everyone is not a party at variance?

    That which Jesus mediates is not salvation but the new covenant. Eveyone is not part of that covenant.

    Everyone can get salvation through Jesus though. Salvation is provided by Jesus' priesthood, not mediatorship.

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