Pat Condell on Aggressive Atheism

by cantleave 97 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  NewChapter

  . I differentiate between myself and principles/issues

  See, and I think that Condell is addressing issues in his rant. Perhaps we view that differently.

  BTS--not sure who you are referring to--but you added nothing.

  James--yes I think when it comes to human rights, allieviating human suffering, and pushing tolerance my ideas ARE superior and they DO need to be contaminated. No apologies. No hiding. They are f**ked up, and they spread misery and death. So there ya go!

  Now, if we are going to argue home styles, government styles, education syles---whatever. There are many ideas that need to be considered, and there may not be any correct answer, as they will vary from culture to culture, so it would be superior of me to say they must live as I do. But when it comes to human rights, there is no room for compromise. Those of us that have grown past that desert god, have learned from our experiences, and have worked to better things for ourselves and others, should never shirk away from these accusations. In fact I embrace them and call myself guilty of caring more about human rights than some dusty writings attributed to some tribal god. Shoot me.
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  sabastious

  Outlaw evangelism.

  Yeah, who needs free speech! Not like that ever did anything...

  -Sab
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  james_woods

  Everyone knows that Bible God morals are the only way forward - I mean just look at history to prove that I'm right.

  I believe that Besty said that sarcastically - but if you think about it, there is a great irony in that what he said is actually true.

  For all of the claimed intellectual superiority (and yes, I am myself an agnostic) - atheism has not proven to have advanced human rights or morality in any practical human example.

  Such progress has historically been through religious evolvements.
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  Sauerkraut

  But when it comes to human rights, there is no room for compromise. Those of us that have grown past that desert god, have learned from our experiences, and have worked to better things for ourselves and others, should never shirk away from these accusations. In fact I embrace them and call myself guilty of caring more about human rights than some dusty writings attributed to some tribal god. Shoot me.

  Looks like there's plenty to do in our own countries before we can even think about fixing other places.
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  NewChapter

  atheism has not proven to have advanced human rights or morality in any practical human example.

  Just what makes you say this? Most atheists I know fully support human rights, and get angry when backward thinking oppesses some. They work to keep the children out of ignorance in the science class. They work against bigotry, sexism and homophobia. There can be some overlap in their efforts with some religious organizations (organizations that are actually stepping away from bible morality, I might add) but that doesn't mean they didn't play a role. That was quite the sweeping statement, James, and completely wrong. Or perhaps you don't think their contributions count as much because they are not as organized or attached to a religious group.

  Support your generalization!
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  NewChapter

  Looks like there's plenty to do in our own countries before we can even think about fixing other places.

  This is not a battle that can be fought only on one front. I am very concerned about gay rights, women's issues, immigration status in my own country. That does not prevent me from also caring what happens beyond my borders. HUMAN rights are human---not national. Or should I think of people outside my country as less human?

  Go into an emergency room, and you will see that the sickest get more intense and quick attention. I am not bound by the place of my birth when expressing love and concern. I am capable of caring about all of it.
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  james_woods

  Just what makes you say this? Most atheists I know fully support human rights, and get angry when backward thinking oppesses some. They work to keep the children out of ignorance in the science class. They work against bigotry, sexism and homophobia.

  I know that most atheists support such human rights causes, New Chapter.

  But, what made me say what I did is that no atheist government or large human progressive movement has yet in human history done any significant advance in these things. So, I say no PRACTICAL atheistic contribution to human welfare.

  In fact, the only large atheistic governments (the communists) in Russia, China, Cuba, Cambodia, N.K. and elsewhere - have a terrible record of human rights violations - many deaths on their hands as a matter of fact.

  So again I say - the real human rights advances have come from religions (and non atheistic governments) who have evolved their thinking toward human rights. Not from the atheists - and history is clear on that fact.
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  Sauerkraut

  How do you feel about the violations of humans rights that are happening in the name of your and my governments today? What many western nations do these days is counter productive. Are you aware of that? Many people in other countries care more about that than any idea of human rights that you would like to pass on to them. Many don't even take us serious anymore because of that.
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  NewChapter

  But, what made me say what I did is that no atheist government or large human progressive movement has yet in human history done any significant advance in these things. So, I say no PRACTICAL atheistic contribution to human welfare.

  Scandinavian countries seem pretty happy, and they are highly secular. Governments can be bad, regardless of who is running them, The issue is tyrants. The US has a secular government, and we've come a long way in human rights. It's when the religious right gets power that those rights are on the table. I don't believe in atheist governments OR religious governments---but secular. I see that as neutral. Enforced atheism is just as bad as enforced religion. I never called for our government to be atheist, but continue to point out that it is meant to be secular. Allow each person to follow their conscience.
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  NewChapter

  How do you feel about the violations of humans rights that are happening in the name of your and my governments today? What many western nations do these days is counter productive. Are you aware of that? Many people in other countries care more about that than any idea of human rights that you would like to pass on to them. Many don't even take us serious anymore because of that.

  I don't like violations of human rights, regardless of who is driving them. This is not a political discussion. I am aware of many things, and yet I STILL have room to care even beyond that. Don't think I'm not critical of my own government. I am. I can also be critical of other systems that think it's fine to shoot a young woman in the face for wanting an education.