Pat Condell on Aggressive Atheism

by cantleave 97 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  james_woods

  I never called for our government to be atheist, but continue to point out that it is meant to be secular. Allow each person to follow their conscience.

  Then perhaps the same thing should apply to the middle east without forcing a standard.

  BTW - the scandinavian countries you mention are not "atheist" by government, and were in no serious civil rights abuse situation before the so-called secularization.

  I think we agree on most of the points here - except for the great distinction that you seem to be reserving the right to ENFORCE your atheist/secular standards on other societies which have not yet (and in fact may never) naturally adopt them.
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  talesin

  NK is not atheist ,, the ruler is considered a god. Just sayin,,

  communism and atheism = apples and oranges

  t
• 

  MrFreeze

  james_woods, you say let them worship as they please. Even if it means killing people for your misguided beliefs? Even if it means a rampant sexist attitude? Even if it means denying a group of people rights? I have no problem with people worshipping, as long as they do not let their religious ideals influence anybody else. Sadly, too many people want to see laws based on the Bible be the laws that govern all people in the United States. Those laws they want to put in place have no basis except on the Bible. That, my friend, is a clear violation of the Constitution.
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  besty

  In fact, the only large atheistic governments (the communists) in Russia, China, Cuba, Cambodia, N.K. and elsewhere - have a terrible record of human rights violations - many deaths on their hands as a matter of fact.

  Hitler loved animals, therefore animal lovers are fascists - this particular logical fallacy even has its own name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

  Non-belief in the concept of god motivates communist leaders to abuse their own people?

  No it doesn't - its non-belief in the flying spaghetti monster that motivates them - everybody knows that :-)
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  NewChapter

  I think we agree on most of the points here - except for the great distinction that you seem to be reserving the right to ENFORCE your atheist/secular standards on other societies which have not yet (and in fact may never) naturally adopt them.

  I didn't say anything about enforce (nice switch again, btw). We started with 'contamination' which led to 'structuring' and now 'enforcement'.

  No. I say we keep talking, educating, sharing. Change comes from the inside. However, if we can take measures to immediately stop people from shooting young girls in the face for going to school, then yes, perhaps some enforcement might be in line---if it were possible. But I don't think it is, so let's continue contaminating until that is no longer okay in the eyes of many.

  This is the Libertarian argument---that laws don't change hearts, so don't force people. Well I say that if it takes a law to make sure that a certain race can get employment at fair pay, then I don't expect that certain race to wait around for hearts to be changed---if there is a way around it. I don't think young girls should be patient as they get shot in the face, while waiting for hearts to change. We can certainly apply a certain amount of pressure that would not really be enforcement. We can construct things in such a way that allowing for human rights will benefit them more than not doing so. But we can't pass laws in their countries---this is no reason to give up all together.
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  cofty

  Just as atheism results in the loss of human rights it is a well known fact that the rise in global warming is caused by the demise of pirates.

  
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  MrFreeze

  In Cambodia, Pol Pot killed anybody who did any sort of thinking. If you had glasses, you were thought to be an intellectual, so you were dead. That means that all atheists hate people with glasses.
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  james_woods

  An interesting thought question: If Captain Kirk had chanced upon the ancient Aztecs making human sacrifices to their sun-god, would he have tried to change them?

  Strictly speaking, no - not according to the prime directive.

  Incidentally, there IS a close paralell between atheistic (or anti-religious) forms of government and communism. It goes back all the way to Karl Marx.
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  besty

  Science is corrosive to religion - people are continuing to wake up, and there will be a vocal minority who push the boundaries, and they are welcome. The human race is on a journey and like it or not the tide is going out on the age of fairy tales.

  The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. - George Bernard Shaw
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  MrFreeze

  james, this isn't people from the future trying to explain the terrible things religion has birthed. It is people who are living in the same place, at the same time.

  Have you ever heard of anyone being killed in the name of Atheism? I'm sure those communist dictators where Atheist in regards to Thor. Therefore, not believing in Thor must make people terrible.