God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites - What does the bible REALLY teach?

by irondork 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mP
    mP

    unstopableravens

    mrsjones:just for clearification i did not say you would i said somebody, and jeffro just because the ones in the 1860 said they were christains,does not mean what paul meant by slave is the same as what happened in the past here in the usa.

    mP -> un

    If anything slavery was worse in Pauls time. If Paul was speaking by divine revelation then he should have condemned slavery knowint it would be evil in the future. THis argument only shows Paul to be a failed human, it does not form any sort of apology. Slavery was so bad back then hundreds of thosuands revolted and joined Spartacus even when they knew they would be hunted and impaled. There are of course mahy other revolts in Roman hustory but i wanted to focus on Spartacus and his army of free slaves because this undeniable and often forgotten.

  • unstopableravens
    unstopableravens

    mrsjones: i dont think thats the case, im just simply asking for proof that the slavery in thoses verse is the same as what i think of when i think of slavery.im being open minded here.

  • mP
    mP

    mrsjones: i dont think thats the case, im just simply asking for proof that the slavery in thoses verse is the same as what i think of when i think of slavery.im being open minded here.

    Unstop:

    What makes you think slavery in Roman times was a holiday comapred to the recent times like the American South ? If anything it worse, but both were nightmares.

    There is no justification for Pauls comments and lack of condemnation.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    " im just simply asking for proof that the slavery in thoses verse is the same as what i think of when i think of slavery.im being open minded here."

    Get ye to a library. It's silly ask for proof on a message board.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    The real worry is that the Bible does not say anywhere NT or OT not to have slaves. As previously mentioned there are countless texts in the NT where Jesus, Paul etc are telling slaves to be obedient, but not once does it say slavery is evil. So much for moral superiority.

    Jesus was not a reformer, neither was he a philosopher. The time we spend on Earth is fleeting and whether we live in servitude or not is of secondary interest to God as far as our individual lives are concerned. But Christianity was anti-slavery in that it emphasized the freedom and agency of all men to be obedient to God. What is important is our moral outlooks, our keeping the commandments. This is not to say that slavery isn't evil. It is. Very much so. But Christianity had little to say on it because its message was Christ, and the freedom Christ offered was of far greater worth than any other types of freedom. Jesus also wasn't a lawgiver like Moses was.

    Christians weren't permitted to own slaves, and under the Law of Moses, servitude was limited to restoration. You couldn't just declare bankruptcy if you owed a debt you couldn't pay, neither were there debtor prisons. And servitude wasn't forever under the Law. Every seven years or so, you had to forgive all debts. Slavery in the U.S. (and it wasn't just in the South; the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free one slave anywhere, and it didn't apply to slaves in the North). Under the Law, you couldn't beat a man to death. Once you drew blood, you had to stop. Not so in Europe and the U.S.

    Jesus' message was one of hope and freedom. It had to do with the redemption of mankind from the fall. In the Second Century A.D., as Christianity began to spread, converts freed slaves right and left. That's because it changes the heart, or it's supposed to.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    USR, here you go...

    Although their exact status varied from the founding of Rome to its eventual decline, slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution. The testimony of a slave could not be accepted in a court of law unless the slave was tortured—a practice based on the belief that slaves in a position to be privy to their masters' affairs would be too virtuously loyal to reveal damaging evidence unless coerced.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Rome

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    under the Law of Moses, servitude was limited to restoration . You couldn't just declare bankruptcy if you owed a debt you couldn't pay, neither were there debtor prisons. And servitude wasn't forever under the Law. Every seven years or so, you had to forgive all debts.

    More romanticising.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's for Hebrew slaves. The 'perfect' law let them keep other slaves permanently, even as inherited property. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

    Of course, even a Hebrew slave, if he married one of the master's slavegirls (who were basically property), he could never leave without losing his wife (and he also had to undergo a mutiliation ritual). (Exodus 21:2-6)

    And girls could basically be sold as live-in prostitutes. (Exodus 21:7-11)

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