I’m no bigot, I’m biased. A bigot greatly prefers his own kind of political, social, religious and financial peers, and this is certainly not the case with me. I’ve had good friends who are homosexual and, as I said, it’s not my place to judge them. And based on my personal beliefs, gleaned not only from the scriptures but in reading numerous near death experiences, everyone has issues they have to work through in this life. I also believe we all had premortal lives in the spirit, and that we came into mortality with these issues. (As difficult as it may seem; as difficult as it may be to believe, I, too, have issues I struggle with each day.)
I have no desire to interfere with anyone’s lifestyle or sexual proclivities, but the scriptures mean what they say, and rationalizations change nothing. Jesus not only didn’t change these views, His apostles iterated the ancient commandments against homosexuality.
So please don’t blame me for what the scriptures say.
Quendi:I have found Cold Steel’s bigotry to be unpalatable. The oversimplification and gross generalization he employs is the same that I heard racists use to justify their beliefs and attitudes. His patronizing and condescending attitude, which he believes is proof of his open-mindedness, is nothing of the kind. He says he knows of no commentators who don’t believe the Bible condemns homosexuality unreservedly. That is because he simply hasn’t looked hard enough.
Okay, if I were to change, in what areas would you want those changes to be? I bear no malice towards homosexuals; I don’t think God hates them, I don’t judge them, I would hire them, befriend them, help them if they were in need. Do you find me a bigot just because of my scriptural exegesis? Or that I believe that homosexuality is an aberrance like pedophilia? If so, how do you know you’re right and I’m not? If some modern commentators believe that the Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality “unreservedly,” do you actually think the ancient Hebrew cultures condoned homosexuality as long as it wasn’t a part of heathen worship? If so, where’s the proof? The burden is on you to show that the scriptures say something other than what they appear to say. As for whether homosexuality is an anomaly, again, where’s your proof that it’s not? This is a question that has not been definitively answered by science, so your view and my view are subjective opinions. Does my view that homosexuality is an aberrance make me a bigot? What if I’m right and you’re wrong?
Your earlier responses indicate that you absolutely make subjective moral judgments on the ‘lifestyles’ of other people.
My views, sir, are no more or less subjective than your own. As for my making a moral judgment, no, I have not. I don’t judge anyone. The whole issue of this thread is whether Old and New Testament scriptures mean what they appear to mean, or should they be taken in a context of heathen worship involving the sacrifice of infants and wanton sex acts?
Doesn’t God make subjective moral judgments? Does He not state: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” This passage is in a long list of commandments and penalties. “And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20) Are all of these commandments to be interpreted in light of heathen worship? I don’t think so.
Again, the distorted association of homosexuality with pedophilia.
How do you know it’s distorted? What if it’s not distorted? And what if the Lord does view homosexuality as an abomination?
You must first prove the existence of your chosen deity before attempting to imbue it with any authority, characteristics or actions.
Who says? We’re talking about scriptural exegesis here, not the existence or nature of God. The title of this thread calls into question how Hebraic scripture is interpreted.
Ahem... I think (hope) you mean perpetuate? I assume you feel the same disgust about infertile people who still have sex.
Yes, although sometime I wonder if perpetrate was right. About infertile people who still have sex, no problem. I said the main, or primary, reason for sex was to perpetuate the species. Mechanically, homosexual acts are problematic, as emergency room doctors can attest. Even before AIDS, the health ramifications of homosexuality dwarfed those of heterosexuality.
Hasty generalization. [Gay pride parades] doesn’t tell you anything about homosexuals. It tells you about (a predominant subset of) people who appear in ‘gay pride’ marches. And why do you watch the pride marches anyway? So you can revel in your own righteous indignation?
Hmm...yeah, prominent. It raises the question of why there are no decent gay parades held by other subsets?
Only a true bigot would associate homosexuality with the inner workings of the Third Reich. Godwin would be proud.
Godwin is an idiot. Do you know anything about the Night of the Long Knives? Despite the persecution of “femme” homosexuals, the Nazi hierarchy, including the “brown shirts,” were riddled with homosexuals. But these were expected to act like tough men in public, not the outrageous effeminate types that were arrested and sent to concentration camps. Behind closed doors, however, things could, and did, get wild. Rumors abounded that Hitler, himself, was a homosexual; however, he was explicit in letting his men know that he had no wish to be embarrassed, and that he wouldn’t stand for it.
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