The Gentile Times Reconsidered (607 B.C.E.) -Part A1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12 Reviewed

by FaceTheFacts 259 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Londo111

  Wow…only three days and 9 pages, 3244 views and counting, three identities, one psychotic break… It’s been fun!
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  Jeffro

  Wow…only three days and 9 pages, 3244 views and counting, three identities, one psychotic break… It’s been fun!

  It is amusing watching apologists lose their cool. But I see the biggest benefit being for the lurkers. Otherwise I wouldn't bother engaging the apologists at all.
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  Witness My Fury

  I'm starting to think the main intention here by Legion is to distract and swamp and confuse the hell out of the subject so the majority will throw their hands up and say 'I cant understand it, it's too difficult' and stop thinking about it.

  All the hot air in the world won't account for the extra 20 years the WTS insist on being there.
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  2+2=5

  ^That's exactly what I think Witness My Fury. Swamp and confuse so maybe any lurkers just get overwhelmed and think 'the Slave class must be right on this, they do such thorough research. And besides we all know Jesus became king in 1914'.

  Most are happy with the historical evidence and a sound scriptural explanation that puts them both in harmony. Not our friend Leigon.
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  DATA-DOG

  I'm starting to think the main intention here by Legion is to distract and swamp and confuse the hell out of the subject so the majority will throw their hands up and say 'I cant understand it, it's too difficult' and stop thinking about it.

  All the hot air in the world won't account for the extra 20 years the WTS insist on being there

  ^That's exactly what I think Witness My Fury. Swamp and confuse so maybe any lurkers just get overwhelmed and think 'the Slave class must be right on this, they do such thorough research. And besides we all know Jesus became king in 1914'.

  BINGO!!!!!!
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  Pterist

  A question for FaceTheFacts : Assuming you accept the Bible over secular facts, When does the NT, (Christian Greek Scriptures) acknowledge the beginning of the exile from Jerusalem and acknowledges the start of the return of those exiled, during Babylon's reign of power and fall.

  Shalom
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  Pterist

  Just look at how JWs twist scripture to prove their false take on The 70 years.

  Look how they interpret Jeremiah 25:29......from this JW web site -------> http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/70yearsofservitude.html

  Yes, the nations certainly will drink Jehovah’s rage. They have no choice. After all, if his own people going to drink of it, the nations certainly will. However, when will he make his own people drink of this cup? Jehovah makes it quite clear when, saying:

  “For, look! it is upon the city upon which my name is called that I am starting off in bringing calamity, and should you yourselves in any way go free of punishment ? You will not go free of punishment, for there is a sword that I am calling against all the inhabitants of the earth,' is the utterance of Jehovah of armies.””

  The answer to our original question, 'Does the servitude begin when Jerusalem is destroyed?' has been right here all along – in the very same chapter where the 70 years of servitude is mentioned. After stating that Judah will become a devastated land, and that the nations will serve Babylon for 70 years, did you notice that the starting point of the 70 years is directly pinpointed?

  Jehovah is “starting off” with “the city [upon] which my name is called”, that city, of course, being Jerusalem. Only when that city meets calamity will the 70 years for all the nations begin. It does not say the calamity starts upon the countryside of Judah, as some claim. Nor does not say it begins with a mere exile. It starts off in the city of Jerusalem, and it is “a sword that I am sending among you.”

  The calamity of Jerusalem is the “starting” point, and from that point onward the nations will not remain “free of punishment”. For sure, “Jerusalem” will drink the cup first, but all the other nations must drink the cup and serve the King of Babylon too. Can it get any clearer than this?

  What does this mean? It means 587 cannot be the date of Jerusalem’s destruction. As you know, 587 to 537 is only 50 years. On the other hand, 607 to 537 is exactly 70 years.

  Lets look at the following translations of Jeremiah 25:29 that show how they twist scripture. Can anyone back up a comment from a Greek or Hebrew translation ??? ?

  New International Version (©1984) See, I am beginning to bring disaster on the city that bears my Name, and will you indeed go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am calling down a sword upon all who live on the earth, declares the LORD Almighty.' New Living Translation (©2007) I have begun to punish Jerusalem, the city that bears my name. Now should I let you go unpunished? No, you will not escape disaster. I will call for war against all the nations of the earth. I, the LORD of Heaven's Armies, have spoken!' English Standard Version (©2001) For behold, I begin to work disaster at the city that is called by my name, and shall you go unpunished? You shall not go unpunished, for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth, declares the LORD of hosts.’ New American Standard Bible (©1995) "For behold, I am beginning to work calamity in this city which is called by My name, and shall you be completely free from punishment? You will not be free from punishment; for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth," declares the LORD of hosts.' Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009) For I am already bringing disaster on the city that bears My name, so how could you possibly go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth"--this is the declaration of the LORD of Hosts. International Standard Version (©2012) Look, I'm beginning to bring disaster on the city that is called by my name, and do you actually think you will avoid punishment? You won't avoid punishment because I'm summoning the sword against all those who live in the land," declares the LORD of the Heavenly Armies.'" King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) I am going to bring disaster on the city that is named after me. Do you think you'll go unpunished? You will not go unpunished! I'm declaring war on all those who live on earth, declares the LORD of Armies.' King James 2000 Bible (©2003) For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, says the LORD of hosts. American King James Version For, see, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword on all the inhabitants of the earth, said the LORD of hosts. American Standard Version For, lo, I begin to work evil at the city which is called by my name; and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished; for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith Jehovah of hosts. Douay-Rheims Bible For behold I begin to bring evil on the city wherein my name is called upon: and shall you be as innocent and escape free? you shall not escape free: for I will call for the sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the Lord of hosts. Darby Bible Translation For behold, I begin to bring evil on the city that is called by my name, and should ye be altogether unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished; for I call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith Jehovah of hosts. English Revised Version For, lo, I begin to work evil at the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts. Webster's Bible Translation For lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts. World English Bible For, behold, I begin to work evil at the city which is called by my name; and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished; for I will call for a sword on all the inhabitants of the earth, says Yahweh of Armies. Young's Literal Translation For lo, in the city over which My name is called, I am beginning to do evil, And ye -- ye are entirely acquitted! Ye are not acquitted, for a sword I am proclaiming, For all inhabitants of the land, An affirmation of Jehovah of Hosts.
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  Pterist

  Follow up on my last comment, In NO WAY can you imply That this is the STARTING POINT of the 70 years.

  Any comments FaceTheFacts ??.??

  Here is a Hebrew translation of Jeremiah 25:29

  29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.

  25:29 ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ki ene b·oir ashr nqra -shm·i oli·e anki mchl

  that behold !in·the·city which he-is-called name-of·me on·her I

  cstarting

  ? ?? ?? ?? ???? ????

  l·ero u·athm

  ??? ?????

  enqe

  ?????? ?????

  thnqu la

  to·to-cbring-evil-of and·you(p) to-be-ninnocent you(p)-shall-be-ninnocent not

  ?? ? ??? ?? ? ??? ? ?? ?? ? ?? ?? ? ?? ?? ? ?? ? ? ??? ? ? ?? ??? ?? ? ?? ????

  thnqu ki chrb ani qra ol -kl -ishbi e·artz

  you(p)-shall-be-ninnocent that sword I calling on all-of ones-dwelling-of the·earth

  ??? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ??:

  nam ieue tzbauth :

  averment-of Yahweh-of hosts
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  Jeffro

  Pterist:

  Follow up on my last comment, In NO WAY can you imply That this is the STARTING POINT of the 70 years.

  Indeed, and the selective translation of the NWT of this verse is no surprise.

  The calamity can't be the beginning of the 70 years, because the calamity was the 'cup' that went "from nation to nation" (Jeremiah 25:17-26, 32) at different times, whereas the seventy years was a single fixed period that had already started, and could not extend beyond 539 BCE (Jeremiah 25:12).
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  Pterist

  Thanks JEFFRO