Hi PON,
this link might help you in getting some answers ?
What evidence is there for Jesus (NOT USING THE BIBLE)?
by punkofnice 139 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AGuest
I guarantee Jesus will not be what we expect.
Now THAT I can agree with. As to both "Jesus"... and what man expects regarding the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... who is called Christ and is the Son of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... who many call "God."
Isaiah 52:14, 15
A slave of Christ,
SA
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mP
AGuest -> mP:
Whoa. Okay, this is... well, unbelievable isn't the right word. You are absolutely, totally, and unequivocally misquoting me , dear mp (peace to you)! Why?! Here is what I stated, verbatim:
mP-> AGuest
I didnt quote anything from your posts about Clement. I never mentioned his opinions about scripture or anything like that.
My reply was onl highlughting how dubious any knowledge we have of Clement truely is. Unfortunately early xian history is very very shakey, there are countless versions many times contradictory which are a joke. If we have different angles on something that are completely cntradictory then surely its plain to see that any account is beyond reliable and can only be viewed as myth or stories and not fact.
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mP
Band:
Da Vinci's Last Supper in prints
mP:
You might want to read up on the last supper, Da Vinci slipped in a lot of astrological references in there. Apparently he didnt think Jesus was human but J and the 12 were personifications of the zodiac etc.
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mP
LV101
mP --- thank you --- you are right on teachings older (than Jesus) but I think it was way older than Buddha and perhaps a philospher of the times. Someone posted the info within the past year and I can't find it nor have I had time with the delirium of the season --- story of my life. I'm dependent on you "learned" ones on board here --- and I do appreciate.
LV
mP:
Like many others here, i was just trying to show that Jesus one liner about being a good neighbour was not new or revolutionary. Either way this useful and good thought doesnt count as historical proof of anything. Were there other good writings before Buddha of course there was, it doesnt really matter as the fact writings like this existed before Jesus is beyond doubt.
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Sayswho
There are those who say, "because of how people conduct themselves"…
Belief in Him has influenced people or groups to act in various ways, some Loving, Kind; others Evil, Murders, killing in His and His Gods name. (Depending on who u think He is)
The fact that he existed is debatable, but the belief that he did and how it influenced humans to act or react is not. This is evident throughout religion.
I was told that the reason God does not preform miracles today to prove he is real is…….Because we have the complete Bible as proof of His existence…
How naive, trusting I was…
SW
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mP
SaysWho
Jesus has is probably the biggest most negative impact on human hstory. Look at all the evils of the last2000 years done in the name and directed by Jesus. His church wanted the crusades, it made money of slavery, it justified cruel colonisation and more for most of the entire world.
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Sayswho
mP--- I agree
One way of controlling people is by force, but this is subject to resistance. It appears the best way to control people is to find a way of uniting them. Religion does just that.
Does this prove Jesus Exist? Lets hope not!!
If people believe that they are doing something for a just cause they can be persuaded to commit acts of extreme violence.
In parts of Ireland, Catholics and Protestants have killed and maimed each other in the name of their Christian religion.
This is the opposite of how a Christian should act.
Just because somebody claims to be a Christian it doesn't mean that they are.
And if religion were banned wouldn't violent people find another cause other than religion for their violence?
Religion is one of the most effective means in uniting people, those who seek power and control often use religion to unite people into achieving their goals.
It is the quest for power and control that causes violence. The fact that people are intolerant of difference is the cause of much of the world's violence.
If religion were removed there would be something else for people to fight about.
IMHO
SW
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mP
Ticker:
Band on the Run do you consider Alexander the Great to be a mythical person. Only 5 ancient sources make up his know history written over 300 years after his existence with no eyewitnesses and yet no one claims he didn't exist.
mP:
Arguing about Alexander does not make Jesus any more real or historical. Alexanders historicity is to be honest and fair a totally different question. If we drop our argument to this level , then we have to believe many other rediculous stories like the Greek gods. Richard Carrier (a historian) has a good video that tells us about ancient writings and witness accounts that tell stories like 500 witnesses to events like talking fish etc. Do we believe Mohammad flew on a pegasus because its well written down ?
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mP
Sayswho
This is the opposite of how a Christian should act.
Just because somebody claims to be a Christian it doesn't mean that they are.
mP:
Who says xians should be nice and good ? Jesus own apostles walked around with weapons under his nose. Paul also tells us in Philemon of one who had slaves, and it must be implied was rather cruel or bad because the slave wanted freedom and ran away looking for refuge.
If you honestly examine jesus life and not selectively recall his one saving grace you will find hes not that good or nice. FOr example he didnt give a rats about non jews and said it on multiple occassions. If you want scroptres ask or search for yourself.