So if you tell a JW they were raised in a cult... (page 3)

NeverKnew

And another question, if any of you had truly been in love with a worldly, and had been given numerous examples of inconsistencies... would there have been ANY chance you would have heard them?

Did this happen for any of you?

Yes she is. I love her and our child. Things are just strained, and it is not her fault or mine. We were both raised as JW's and were baptized and married way too young. Like you mentioned, honest conversations about everything are not possible. I have learned from being in a committed relationship and from learning TTATT, and from my Elder's meetings that true friendship is not possible with secrets.

I wish we could be free. The constant pressure and guilt to do more for the Org really takes it out of people. There is not much to give to anyone else. If she pioneers again she will be totally exhausted all the time. I just keep hoping that SOMETHING, ANYTHING, will wake her up. Don't even get me started on the mental stress of raising a teenager who is nearing the age of baptism. I do not want my child being duped. I have to take it day by day.

I hope everything works out for you. If he loves you then I think that he would make an unbaised examination of the WTBTS's claims. He can be a Christian and not be in a man-made organization. If you both really love each other, don't let anyone else ruin that. Are you crazy about each other? Then don't give up!

perfect1

OH, and nobody knows about me which yes, I'm insulted by...

Dont put up with that. I saw your picture on another thread, You can do better!

No matter what you look like, you deserve to be with someone who incorporates you into their life, shame free.

new22day

Hi there, I can relate to your situation very much. After 2 years of frustration, I recently (30 days ago) ended all contact with my now ex-JW BF. I also told him I thought it was a 'cult', only difference is I did it very early on in our relationship. Sounds like you have been pretty respectful. I regret saying 'cult' as strongly as I did, only because I think it ended all reasonable conversation between he and I on this religion. He knew where I stood and was leary of talking about it with me at all. In hindsight, I wish I'd have asked more questions and tried to get him to see for himself all the inconsistencies. And had I asked questions I might have understood more about how deeply insidious these beliefs are in all aspects of a JWs life. Unfortunately, I've really been learning now, from people on this site, how messed up it is.

With all that being said, I think trying to get someone out can be a usless battle for a worldly person that's fighting alone against family and other JWs who will reinforce you as being evil. And do you really want to be married to someone who thinks you will die at Armageddon while he goes on to live in paradise? Talk about inequality - lol. I think this dynamic would damper any relationship.

It's tough. This Christmas wasn't a lot of fun being alone with all my family. Although I realized I would have been alone even if we were together since it's evil Christmas time and all, he wouldn't have joined in. We talked about this at length before.

OH, and nobody knows about me which yes, I'm insulted by...

This part is total BS! Don't be insulted, be outraged. Are you not good enough to be known? And he claims he will marry you?! I experienced that too and my anonyminity from his JW life was the final straw. It just sucks. Do you really want to be married to a man who thinks it acceptable to keep you a secret? I want a man who has some integrity and character and will stand up for me, not hide me. Such BS.

I wish you all the best with this and I hope he mans up and leaves the JWs for good, although it doesn't sound like he's anywhere near that. :(
Good luck to you.

perfect1

not to rub salt, but any updates, Never Knew

shopaholic

JWs and even some that recently left the religion will be highly offended. You might have well as said "I am Satan and I'm here to take you away from your Jehovah."

MrFreeze

Have you managed to make it out to a KH yet? That's where you can really see a lot of the cult stuff come out.

DATA-DOG

OH, and nobody knows about me which yes, I'm insulted by...

Wow! I missed that part. Don't play second fiddle girl! You are a person, not a diversion for some immature boy to keep on the side. Let that guy marry a regular pioneer. You don't want someone who really doesn't love you. Hang in there.

NeverKnew

Hi all! I went to the mountains where it was quiet without internet access. I needed the break.

Before I succumbed to my annoyance, he and I had agreed to meet after he got off work (at midnight) on New Years Eve. Via text, I asked if we were to meet. His answer was "sure". So Shopaholic, he's agreed to meet Satan. *giggling*

You all have made it clear that my desired outcome should determine my actions. I'm really trying to get him to do his own thinking, but the problem is I've learned so darn much, I feel like I'm being manipulative and dishonest as I question.... For crying out loud! I already know the darn answers! I feel like a talking Watchtower study article with the questions at the bottom - except there's no article! (Guessing that's the goal, huh...)

I have to wonder, could I be feeding off of the challenges you, as JWs have and applying them to myself? Shouldn't I have a little more leeway?

Don't worry, I'm still working on my Socratic methods (teaching through questions), but I'm wondering why a non-JW (who STILL hasn't been to a KH) couldn't say, "...I'm feeling extremely uncomfortable about what I'm seeing. You know that I love you and I want to believe that you made a great decision to be around a great group of people who really love God but I started noticing that a few too many websites were referring to your organization as a 'cult' so I realized I needed to know what a cult was before I jumped to conclusions. I got a few books from the library about cults and I gotta be honest... the similarities seemed a little unnerving. I'm sick about these implications. There was one book in particular that had me thinking the hardest. They were talking about a group I had never heard of and even though the Witnesses were never mentioned, I saw what seemed to be quite a few similarities. If you could read about this group and tell me differently... then maybe I could reconsider, but you'd have to tell me what doesn't apply and why."

Right now, I think my goal is to have more honest communications - in a naive but supportive way. If we lose each other, I just have to realize that it wasn't supposed to be.

At that point, if he ever learns TTATT, I'm sure it'll really hurt but it may be too late by then. At least he'll know that I loved him and was sincerely trying to help.

If you have any recommendations before I put my other foot in my mouth, let me know. I'm especially curious as to whether non-JWs have more leeway to say things (out of *cough-cough* ignorance) than a JW.

notjustyet

Before your meeting buy some index cards and write certain JW phrases on them that you think he will say when you questions his

involvment in a CULT.

Then when he uses those phrases, just pull them out and show him that you knew that he would give that answer. Also possibly state that he might feel light headed and or angry even though you are 2 adults discussing an adult topic and how this is another "click" to show that he might be in a cult.

I personally would use the phrase "High Control Group" initially. The thought I'm trying to share is to write down things ahead of time that you think he would say, to show him that "this is what members of HCG say" when they are asked if they are members of a HCG.

I would also educate myself ahead of time with Steven Hassans definition of a Cult or HCG to show that it is not "specific beliefs" that determine of a person is in a HCG, since there are SO many varibles to consider, but that it is how the Group controls the individual.

Look up the BITE model at Freedomofmind.com if you have not yet. I would also explain that it is not only religion, but business, political etc groups who use these same methods to "corral" their members.

There is a thread somewhere, possibly here, where someone has taken the BITE model and compared it to the WTBTS methods so it makes it easy to see that the WTBTS is using the same methods used by other HCG.

Hope some of this helps.

NJY

So if you tell a JW they were raised in a cult...

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