GENESIS- Adam, Eve, Noah, etc. and Original Sin

by Band on the Run 133 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  sabastious

  So you work for free? You sold your businesses at a loss to be nice?

  I am for a free market system and I do not believe we currently have one. I am an advocate of the open source model.

  I don't understand it because there is no such thing as "your science". It's just more evidence that you would rather complain about the world rather than work to improve yourself. It's intellectually lazy.

  Now this is an interesting accusation. From my own perspective the reason I am in this thread is because I am following the words of the Dalai Lama when responding to Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D., evolution biologist . He said that the world needed critical thinking followed by action. As you have seen in the past I am highly critical of scientists such as Dawkins and Krauss because of their anti-God agenda (they'd probably deny they have one, however). Now we have great minds such as Karen Armstrong joining this petty dispute. The Jews have been saying they are chosen for thousands of years and they are never going to stop saying it. They will always be the People of the Book in my humble opinion. That "book" was a precursor to what brought forth the Messiah that sparked Christianity. What you see as "intellectually lazy" is actually just my science that opposes your own. It's my science vs your science and one wins out in the end. We should be able to be civil about it while remaining confident in one's own work. I don't really believe that science should ever have a capital S nor should nothing have a capital N.

  I don't want the Nothing to overtake the universe, I'd rather eat rocks.

  So you work for free? You are a writer, you just defined yourself as a greedy sheep to the slaughter. What do you write? When? How often? Is it proofread? Fact-checked?

  I work for free for myself. I already said if I ever choose to publish something it will be in the form of a blog. Details are for ironing out.

  -Sab
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  Band on the Run

  So I will briefly summarize more of Armstrong's book. She points out how God finds more and more fault with a creation He declared "very good." Armstrong finds Noah a very despicable person. He does not negotiate with God to spare any human lives as Abrahama did with Sodom and Gomorrah.Noah just follows directions. The Bible gives no explanation for why he was chosen to live. She feels the incident with the drunkeness and his children may have resulted from the trauma of seeing a world utterly destroyed. When I saw 9/11 Ground Zero with my own eyes shortly after the attack, I was traumatized. Imagine seeing worldwide destruction.

  She is certain there are universal truths here. Humans must face a world full of misery and some delight.

  Her writing is an example of problems I face with the Biblical accounts. Reading her book, I am learning so much about the religions and cultures of the ancient nations surrounding Israel. It is hard to understand the Genesis accounts without a contrast for what was the norm for that region. Also, my first Bible exposure was with the Witnesses and elementary school before the school prayer decision by the Supreme Court. I was taught this literal truth. The Bible is in complete accord. You are evil if you do not agree. (Armstrong makes the case that "evil" in Genesis and in Jewish thought has a different meaning than in contemporary Christian usage). Evil is a quality of humans. It is good and bad. I found it interesting that city dwellers are evil.

  These bizarre and challenging stories are embedded in my brain. I react to them the same way I felt about sitting in meetings. Give me freedom. Certainly, I read all these books to convince my child brain not to be afraid.

  Armstrong's book is as much opinion as fact. Learned opinion is different from gut reaction influenced by a dominant culture. It is so well-written. She never insists that we agree with her. It is a partial antidote to Witness upbringing.

  My views may be affected by my faith. So many people dismiss the Bible completely because of these stories. I wish essays such as Armstrong's were as available as these stories are in our culture. No one at my church believes these stories as literal truth. Sometimes I wonder why our childhood affect us so much. A large part of me is still surprised that people who know the Bible can make some sense of it.

  It is unlikely that people believed these stories as fundamental truth when they were first written. The contradictions are plentiful. I would like to know when they were first taken as literal truth. Do orthodox Jews view them as literal? What is Hasidic belief concerning these legends? Freed from representing absolute truth, Genesis provides powerful insights on the human condition.
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  EntirelyPossible

  I am for a free market system and I do not believe we currently have one. I am an advocate of the open source model.

  So you want to get paid and pay your bills but want to complain about others also wanting to make money. Got it. It's easier to whine than to do. Keep whining.

  I don't want the Nothing to overtake the universe, I'd rather eat rocks.

  You have ceased even being in the same realm as "making sense".

  I work for free for myself. I already said if I ever choose to publish something it will be in the form of a blog. Details are for ironing out.

  Oh, that was an almost clever answer. So, you hate publishing houses because they want to make money. You want to get paid for the work you do for others. However, you also want to see yourself, not as you are, but as an ideal of open source knowledge, freedom, sharing, etc., that you want the world to be and instead of working, you keep going on about how wanting to make money in exchange for doing something for you is evil.

  But you sure as hell will take that paycheck.
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  mrsjones5

  "I don't want the Nothing to overtake the universe, I'd rather eat rocks."

  Sounds like a reference to " The Neverending Story".
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  jgnat

  BOTR, I downloaded Armstrong's essay yesterday and I'm going through it now. In my vivid imagination, P is my hero and J is the dreaded codifier who shows up after revelation (the verb, not the book).
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  EntirelyPossible

  It's a reference to the ever shrinking gap theists try to wedge their god in.
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  Band on the Run

  Yes, I read about P and J before this book but confused them. I want a P God! P's God is the God today's Westerners think of as God. These different views of God are confusing. Armstrong is helping me be more aware that YHWH is not the God we talk about in culture. Yet Witnesses support YHWH. I am curious why. The Bible is contradictory. God is so nice in some scripture and a monster in other scripture.

  It is similar to keep Mark's Jesus separate from Matthew's Jesus........... I can only do it if I see the scripture in front of me. It is a blurb in my mind.

  If I find God a blur within my interior belief, there is no wonder there are disputes when others share their perceptions here.
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  jgnat

  Yes, I notice that the WTS prefers the non-thinking OBEDIENT heroes of the bible, who in their zeal to please, allow atrocities right under their nose. What a price to pay.
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  EntirelyPossible

  jgnat, that's thanks for the Coursera link, I have signed up for 4 classes!
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  mrsjones5

  Wow, I'm impressed.