Found a scripture where Jesus is clearly manipulating people

by cptkirk 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  PSacramento

  Mark 6:

  Teaching at Nazareth

  6 Jesus went out from there and *came into His hometown; and His disciples *followed Him. 2 When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? 3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?” And they took offense at Him. 4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.” 5 And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. 6 And He wondered at their unbelief.

  And He was going around the villages teaching.

  I am missing it, but where is the manipulation and to what end?
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  cptkirk

  ok so you are standing there with your friends, and then this guy shows up and starts doing some amazing things, but you really aren't buying what he is selling.....so he is picking up on the fact that you are disinterested, he is a preacher and a teacher......generally the bible teaches that if people aren't interested, just move along, and if it was an exclusive case, maybe pray about it. in this case though, it's like saying , i am telling you why you don't like the message, so now you like the message, because you didn't understand why you were wrong in not liking the message. but this was not based on fact, it was based on your own lying eyes. "these are not the droids you are looking for, move along"
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  PSacramento

  ok so you are standing there with your friends, and then this guy shows up and starts doing some amazing things, but you really aren't buying what he is selling.....so he is picking up on the fact that you are disinterested, he is a preacher and a teacher......generally the bible teaches that if people aren't interested, just move along, and if it was an exclusive case, maybe pray about it. in this case though, it's like saying , i am telling you why you don't like the message, so now you like the message, because you didn't understand why you were wrong in not liking the message. but this was not based on fact, it was based on your own lying eyes. "these are not the droids you are looking for, move along"

  You got that from that passage?

  Tell me, did you get that the frist time you read it?

  I didn't.

  I recall the first time I read that and recall thinking that I could relate to those people and how hard it would be for me to believe that someone I saw grow up was "all of a sudden" a prophet.

  I didn't and still don't see any manipulation on thw writers part.

  At best what I can see in a negative tone ( in regards to Jesus) is that it he was unable to do anything because of their lack of faith in Him.
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  soontobe

  Hi CptKirk, I read the passage, and I don't see any manipulation.
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  cptkirk

  I didn't. it is obviously not some kind of harsh manipulation, but when held up compared to WT teaching, it is not consistent. if jesus is the example, when would we use this tactic as his followers? just isn't consistent.
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  PSacramento

  RE John 15 -

  John 15

  New American Standard Bible (NASB)

  Jesus Is the Vine—Followers Are Branches

  15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9 Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11 These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

  Disciples’ Relation to Each Other

  12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15 No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17 This I command you, that you love one another.

  Again, I don't see manipulation here, not as much as a comment on what it means to be friends and, in this case, Christ's apostles.

  And the qualifier is Love, if they are truly His friend then they would love each other as He loved them.

  I don't see that as manipulation, no more than telling a child that if they really loved their brother or sister they would not hurt them but love them.
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  cptkirk

  I am very proud of you soontobe, that is very nice man, did you make potty today also?

  
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  soontobe

  I am very proud of you soontobe, that is very nice man, did you make potty today also?

  ?

  And here I thought I was having a discussion with you cptkirk.

  
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  PSacramento

  I didn't. it is obviously not some kind of harsh manipulation, but when held up compared to WT teaching, it is not consistent. if jesus is the example, when would we use this tactic as his followers? just isn't consistent.

  It seems to me that, according to the passages, Jesus was teaching in the synagouges and the people there called into question his teachings, not because there was anything wrong with them per say ( though I amsure they thought there was) BUT because of WHO He was and that they knew Him and his family.

  Seems like Jesus was defending himself from an "ad hominem" attack.

  They attacked him and not his teaching based on their view that he wasn't qualified because they knew him and his family.

  If there was attempted manipulation it was on THIER part to discredit Jesus personally, because they couldn't attack his message.
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  cptkirk

  well say more next time soontobe, what the heck good is just saying you disagree? we aren't giving our statements to the furor here, just want to hear an explanation that is all.

  i hear what you are saying, but the bottom line is....the right thing to do is pray, or walk away. isn't he telling them why they are wrong? and if he was doing it with well laid out facts that would be one thing, but he's not. he's just saying this proverb that really you would think, would only be said by someone else *about* him, not him saying about himself? that sounds haughty.