Who will go to heaven?

by misty 60 Replies latest jw friends

misty

I agree with you, tweetiebird, I too was duped and I too really believed that I was in the true religion. When I finally woke up after nearly 15 years, I was so messed up - I thought I was having a breakdown. But I knew that everything was not lies. They after all taught us the Bible (albeit their version of it!) But think of the advantage that we have, we at least know what is in there. If someone claims some weird stuff, we will know that it is totally off the wall. I think that God knows what we have been through, and maybe he is testing us like Abraham? maybe he wants to see how far we will go and still trust in Him? I think it is up to Him to show us the real way - He wrote it, let Him explain it.
SixofNine

If someone claims some weird stuff, we will know that it is totally off the wall.
lol. unless it is the bible claiming some weird stuff!
misty

I am inclined to believe it is the only real thing we can go by. It must have stood the test of time by now. If it were not so, a lot of lives would have been in vain.
misty

Although, SixofNine, I think the Rapture is one of those things that sound pretty weird to me. I am sure lots of people would think it is an alien abduction!
SixofNine

I am inclined to believe ...
Therein lies the problem. Of course you're "inclined to believe". You grew up in an era, in a culture, that said this was the word of God. No one wants to believe they have been mislead by the people they respect most in the world.
If you had grown up in Saudi Arabia, you would no doubt be "inclined to believe" the Koran was God's word.
I think some lives that have been lived in past centuries truly were lived in vain, to an extent. I speak of lives lived for the sole purpose of promoting the Bible and the God of the Bible.
I used to be "inclined to believe" as well. It was a bit scary letting go of that inclination, but I am much more comfortable with "convinced (or unconvinced, as the case may be) by logic".
rhett

Why do you say the order is wrong? Did the grass not come before the cow?
And I quote from the first chapter of Genesis.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Current estimates of the age of the universe are around 12 billion years or so. Its been proven that the earth is around 4.55 billion years old. Do your math and you'll see that the earth is significantly younger than the heavens.
3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Actually, by the time the sun had gone nuculear the planets had yet to form. At best you had many many proto planets moving about the solar system smashing into each other but none of them could be identified as earth (or anything even resembling it) at that point.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Yeah, the sun was turned on and off. Again, if you've studied planetary science any you'd know that planets are formed by having rotational energy form a ball out of a dust cloud which would rule out the thought that any god creature would make the planets before starting to spin them.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Ok, admittedly I don't know botany nearly as well as I know planetary science but I do remember that it took some time until seeds evolved into the grand scheme of things and they certainly around when plants first came to be.
14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
What?!?!?!?! If the plants were supposed to come before any light then how are they supposed to get their energy? Not only that but I think its pretty safe to say that sunlight came before any sort of resemblance to out planet did.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Stars that are billions of light years away couldn't have light arriving now if the earth was made first. Not only that but the moon wasn't around until approximately 3.9 billion years ago when a protoplanet smashed into the earth and the debris from that colision formed our moon.
20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
Again, my interest in science is primarily planetary evolution and I'm certainly no biologist but what I do know for a fact is that fowl didn't come into the scheme of things until much much much later in history.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Notice, it says it was the sixth day. Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure that all of that stuff couldn't quite happen in 144 hours. Another thing, when talking about the "day of Noah" you don't have mornings or evenings mentioned. If those two are brought it then it would only make sense that the writer is talking about a literal day.
Now, do you see what I say right from the very beginning the bible is wrong? Instead of trying to figure out what arcane and contradictory phrases mentioned in the bible can possibly mean for your future might I suggest reading a science book to get a better understanding of the world around you.
Also, if you read a book that contains so many easily spottable inaccuracies right in the very very very beginning wouldn't you be rather cautious about what the rest of it says? I know if I read a book that contains so many factual errors in the very beginning I'm sure as hell not going to base my life on it. Actually, after reading that I'd probally throw the thing out the window and call the author the nutcase that he is.
Back down the bullies to the back of the bus
Its time for them to be scared of us
Solace

I do believe in heaven.
I havnt been able to 100% believe anyones interpretation of it though. Most religions seem to take the whole idea of heaven and obviously put their own spin on it. You know the whole 144,000 thing for example.
I think its impossible for us to comprehend what heaven would be like or who would be there. I believe that it would be a spiritual existance. The only life we have experienced is the one we are living here on earth.
misty

SixofNine, I agree with you that generally we are just 'born into" an inclination to believe in certain things. I was such when I grew up because my mom had been a nun and we were inclined to follow since she was our mom. However, when the JW's came around, I thought that then I was believing because they showed me proof from the Bible (granted I was biased to think it truly was God's Word). But I remember chalenging them on a lot of stuff - they had to do homework and prove all things to me. Three years of homework they did. But I was then 'convinced" to believe by proof (at least enough that seemed to satisfy my teeny brain demands.
If I were In Saudi Arabia, I would be taught the Koran, but in the same way that I wanted to know re JW's, I would still want to know where the Koran came from, realize that it is so much newer than the CHristian Scriptures, then find out also that the latter is so much newer than the Hebrew scriptures, and so on to attempt to get to the source. Then, make a judgement to see which is the truest. That still does not negate that even if I thought that I was "convinced" by logic and proof, I was still misled. I guess the bottom line is that we are only stupid and gullible humans but we still need to do the best with what is given to us and according to our conscience, and like Rhett says:"live a good life, treat others well, do the best you can".
JT

Misty asked a good question:
Do we really get this blahhzaaa after a while?
######
what it is. many have realized that despite all the great religious men efforts to address man's oldest questions
who are we and why are we here, many of us have come to realize that the best anyone can do is give you thier best guess.
if you were in a musluim country all the answers that we see here would be given only with a musluim slant
if we were in a hindu country it would be exactly the same
i have wonderful fellow employees i work with and each day they reconfirm to me how silly belief systems are
i work with a :
1. born again
2, muslium
3. a black muslium
4, a hindu
5. a buddist
and all of these persons believe they GOT THE INSIDE TRACK TO GODA
THEY FEEL that they got the REAL HOLY WRITINGS AND THE OTHER FOLKS GOT THE 2nd Stream team.
they all share the basic common thread
we got the truth you don't
my god will kill you if you don't beleive as me
bottom line
misty

Rhett: I am not a scholar or a planetary scientist. I am not even a scientist. But as far as I understand, Gen. 1:1 serves to summarize the creation in one line and show that God was there first and He created them. Then (I think) He proceeds to explain in very simple terms how he formed EARTH for us, not going into the extensive details about the entire universe, because that is not what is relevant to humans at that point. But nevertheless, he still says that the heavens came first.
Then , I gather, that He wants to show us that he provided for the process of the motion resulting in light and day ( not meaning that the earth stood still until he decided that it needed light!) Remember that (in my opinion) He meant these writing to try to explain to many generations ago, who had not the scientific knowledge that you have. I think that the order that follows is still logical (I don't think that verse 8 refers to the expanse of the universe but only to the atmosphere as 'heaven' to earthlings. Even evolutionists will agree that water would bring forth vegetation, then microscopic animals, etc. (Or am I wrong there too?)
Could it be possible that God did not intend us to understand Morning and Evening as literal but as for example 'the dawn of a new era' or 'the evening of one's life' as we often speak of? Is that far-fetched? Could we not understand that he meant that the evening was implying that He was coming to the end of that chapter of creation?
I don't think anyone can argue that the universe and stars, etc. would be around before the actual earth. But I think that simply stating that He provided light in verse 3 then adds specificity in verses 14-16 shows that He has the order wrong. No more than the fact that He mentions 1;27 'male and female He created them' and then explains in further detail in 2:21-22 how He did it and in what order.
And sure, I would prefer it if He had said "first I did this, then I did that". Then I guess, we would not be arguing, and you would believe still?!?

Who will go to heaven?

Share this