Who will go to heaven? (page 6)

Heaven: I too, don't have a clue and I am trying to make some sense of it so I can settle on something and give it a break, carry on with some kind of confidence. I know we will never know for sure, since no one ever comes back to tell us (although I almost died once, and all was pink and cushy - pink! Bluuhhkk!) Someone wrote, I forget who now, that we may still get what the JW's promised - a life on earth. He thought that the Rapture would be only to get the believers out of harms' way during the Tribulation and Armageddon and then that Christ would return them to earth for the Millenial Reign. SOunds allright, but then what? He didn't say!

rhett

Just for the record, I'm not a scientist but am involved in the scientific community. If you've ever watched the Discovery Channel or TLC and saw a program on meteorites chances are pretty good that I know almost all the people on there because I'm involved in the commercial side of it so that's how I have my knowledge of planetary science. Check out www.meteoritecollectors.org (especially the directors page), www.asteroidmodels.com, and soon www.mitterlingmeteorites.com to see some of the stuff that I run.
If the bible is written to show that god was here first then why not say "He created the heavens THEN the earth"? It doesn't really matter if its relavent or not because we're not talking about that. We're talking scientific acuracy here which you brought up to show how wonderful the bible is.
When you say that the people from generations ago didn't have our scientific knowledge what does that matter? The great and almighty god of the bible should at least know how he created everything. Since you claim he wrote the bible wouldn't he be the one that got it wrong? If he's going to explain things to people why would he do it wrongly? What difference would it be to go ahead and leave out all the technical details but still get all the basics right? When I talk to young children about space and what not I don't get in deep about how everything was formed but just give the absolute most basic and general ideas for them to grasp on to. Amazingly enough they almost always are able to understand it. I don't have to give them anything that's inaccurate or is just outright wrong, just simple. If god can't even get that stuff straight how is he going to get the important stuff straight?
If he meant all the stuff that you say he did then why didn't he just come out and say it instead of providing the scientific nightmares that we find in the bible? Remember, you're the one that brought up the scientific acuracies of the bible that are so ahead of their time to prove that the bible is written by an all powerful and all knowing god creature.
Ever heard of Occam's razor? It says, and is widely accepted, that the easiest and most simple answer is the right one. Instead of trying to explain away the wrongs of the bible by saying the facts that are wrong in it must be figurative because the bible's never wrong (sorry, I just couldn't keep a straight face when typing that) just accept that the bible is a best used to wipe your butt.

And sure, I would prefer it if He had said "first I did this, then I did that". Then I guess, we would not be arguing, and you would believe still?!?

Actually, if you read Genesis, he did say "God did this and then that." Just so happens that the bible is just plain wrong unless you try to twist the intentions of the writer around to fit your own goals. Wondering if I would believe if something was different is pointless because it doesn't matter. What would you do if a three legged midget that's painted green and yodeling came up to you and asked for a ride to Alaska so he could go to tooth brushing school? (sorry if I offended any three legged, two legged, or one legged midgets, any one who likes to be painted green, any yodelers who may read this thread, anyone who needs a ride to Alaska, or any of the fine people at the Alaskan School of Brushing Teeth) Who cares?!?!?!?! It didn't happen so who cares what you would have done.
The fact of the matter is you talked about how the bible is such a great book and used the scientific acuracy idea to back yourself up and I just shot down that scientific acuracy bit by applying some rather common (well, to people that I know anyways) reasoning to shoot down the very first chapter in it. I didn't even have to dig deep into it because everthing I needed was right at the front. Hey, when you get called up in the rapture (snicker snicker snicker) tell god thanks for making it so easy for people like me to see what a load of crap his book is by putting such blatant wrongs right at the very front of it.

Back down the bullies to the back of the bus
Its time for them to be scared of us

misty

How do you get that quote right in the middle of your replies like that?
And, thanks, I will check out those sites, it sounds amazing.
I'll get back to you on this wrong stuff. I am still thinking. For the rapture, when I am grabbed to go up there, I won't have to tell God anything, since if you have heard of the Great White Throne Judgement, you will get to tell Him yourself. Since all those who stay behind from the rapture will probably have to face Him then, I will be watching with interest. (Or is it that you will get to face up when Christ comes at His second coming?That comes first, right? Yeah, that is it!?)

rhett

Yeah, I'll be waiting to hear how you explain the idiocities of the bible. Something tells me the rapture will come before you can explain how an all wise and knowing god can be so blatantly wrong though.

Back down the bullies to the back of the bus
Its time for them to be scared of us

misty

I must be looking at the Good Book with rose coloured glasses because I still can't find anything so wrong. One has to look at the bigger picture. Not just the verses word for word. But I know that you think I am biased, as all the true believers. But my bottom line is still "let God be found true, though every man a liar." If I don't understand something, I attribute it to my finite thinking, not an error on his part, and the fact that He is the only one who has the complete and true picture, we are dust. "His ways are higher than ours". Otherwise why the need for faith? why even have a word for 'faith'? (no, I did not say 'blind credulity')
At this point, I can see you lift your hands up and shake your head, right?

rhett

At this point, I can see you lift your hands up and shake your head, right?

No, I just get a good laugh. You're presented with irrefutable evidence that something is wrong, you admit you can't figure out how someone who is supposed to be all knowing could be wrong, you believe that something must be true because it says it is, you substitute the word "stupidity" with the word "faith," you bring up scientific acuracy to prove something to show how right it is and then when that very same acuracy goes down in flames you say it doesn't matter, you search arcane words written thousands of years ago and mistranslated countless times over those thousands of years in hopes of making sense out of something that over that period of time no one has been able to offer a definitive answer, and yet, despite all the countless ways that it can be easily shown what a load of crap the bible is, you still desperately hang on to it in the hope that this fairy tale will come true. If anything, I should thank you because its conversations like these that reaffirm the fact that the bible is best used as tool to wipe my butt with. It just shows me that the faithful (see last sentance to know what word I'm substituting here) can be presented with a mountain of evidence showing something yet refuse to believe it because of nothing other than their own stubborn adherance to a belief that has long outlived its usefulness. You, single handedly, have shown me that there really is no good reason to believe in god or the bible other than you just want to. Thank you. You are the reason why I just can't believe in stuff like this.
As someone else said on here, you can believe in something all you want but that won't make it come true.

misty

Thank you

You are quite welcomed! I have considered it a pleasure and certainly learned a lot. But I think you are a bit disrespectful to your elders! But, ok considering the context. Please forgive me for my 'faithfulness'.

rhett

I'm respectful to people who earn it from me. Following a book that's thousands of years old that you yourself admit has errors simply because you want to is not a way to do that. Also, trying to get me to be more respectful by citing a part of said book won't exactly help you any either as I think I've made myself clear on how I feel about "the good toilet paper."

misty

Sorry, Rhett: I had to come back for a short rebuttal on this:

Following a book that's thousands of years old
that you yourself admit has errors simply because you want to is not a way to do that

I have never said or admitted that there are errors in the Holy Bible. I have said that I DO NOT find any errors - even when I go back and try to see it your way. I only see that one verse following another is not indicative of chronology. As is also with prophecy, sometimes you will find one verse as a summary, then it will explain from the begin the events. Or, else, they will be found in another book altogether - not making them a different event, just an explained event or series of events by another person.
And, I also do not share your belief that 'faithfullness' equals 'stupidity'. But I sense that you must have had harder blows than me in your life to turn away from Him. I will pray for you (I know you feel you do not need it and that I certainly do!) Hey no law against 'stupid' ones praying for 'smarter' ones, right?

Who will go to heaven?

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