Wikipediaflication: theology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus#Origins_of_the_Exodus_story
Does anyone think there was a great deliverance of the Hebrews from Egyptian captivity?
by humbled 50 Replies latest watchtower bible
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glenster
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MrFreeze
I'm not sure where anybody gets the idea that the Israelites built the pyramids. There really is no indication of that, even in the Bible. In fact, evidence shows that it was paid workers who built the pyramids.
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Cadellin
As has already been stated, there's no way to correlate the Biblical timeline of the exodus with current findings. The Oxford History of the Biblical World (1998) (hardly a liberal or revisionist source) has this to say:
"At no point in the known archeological sequence for Egypty, Sinai and Palestine does the extant archeological record accord with that expected from the Exodus (or, for that matter, conquest) account in the Bible. No archeological evidence from Egypt can be construed as representing a resident group of Israelites in the delta or elsewhere, unless one accepts a general equation of the Exodus group with the Hyksos...Compromise and selectivity are thus the keys to all hypotheses that have been adbvanced to date the Exodus events" (p. 104).
Equating the Israelites with the Hyksos raises its own problems. It puts the conquest of Canaan around the beginning of the 15th century, which means the times of the judges would have had to last four hundred years, before the rise of the monarchy. Moreover, the Biblical record has the Israelites interacting with Ammon, Edom and Moab and archeological digs have revealed that those settlements simply weren't populated at that time.
There's other difficulties, too, with trying to reconcile the literal Biblical account with archeology. The Bible puts the number of persons leaving Egypt at more than 2,000,000, when you count such "non-persons" as women and children--yet the entire population of Egypt was only around 2,000,000 during this supposed time period. Moreover, such a large crowd roaming the area identified in scripture would leave ample evidence of their presence. Assuming a modern mortality rate (which is overly conservative, since ancient mortality rates were much higher), there would have been at least 10,000 people dying of natural causes every month, month after month. That's a LOT of bodies to dispose of, even by burning. Plenty of bones would have been discovered, as well as pottery shards from ordinary trash. Yet--nothing.
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Larsinger58
Yes, of course it happened. But anti-Bible archaeologists don't want you to discover it!
First, before looking for any records of this, you need to date the Exodus and find out during whose reign it occurs. We do that by the Jubilee method where 1947 is the 70th jubilee for the Jews. This is a 49-year period from 1947 to 1996. 70 jubilees is 3430 years, so this period begins in 1435 BCE. The Exodus is the 50th year after this so occurs in 1386 BCE.
When we look at this period, we see this is during the reign of Amenhotep III and IV (Akhenaten). Once we do this we find out that the later pharaoahs completely tried to obliterate Akhenaten from history! But his building works were used as foundations of other works and so from them we learn about Akhenaten. So if there were records of the Israelites leaving Egypt, they were destroyed along with the records from Akhenaten. But some records do survive as well as the context.
Now if the 10 plagues really happened, you'd expect a major impact on Egyptian religion, right? Well guess what? Akhenaten dissed all the false gods of Egypt and became a monotheist like the Israelites! That's why anti-Bible archaeologists don't want you looking too closely at this part of the history and linking the Exodus with Akhenaten because it would be clear the 10 plagues really happened and were behind his becoming a monotheist. This is likely one reason the revisions by the Persian, which remove 26 years from the NB Period and add 82 years to the Persian period is still being suppressed! Once you correct the NB Period, which we can now do specifically using the VAT4956, then the Assyrian eponym eclipse in 709 BCE must be used to date the Assyrian Period, which in turn dates Shishak's invasion to 871 BCE rather than 925 BCE. Shishak's invasion occurs late in the rule of Solomon, co-rule year 5 of 6 for Rehoboam. Thus year 4 falls in 906 BCE and that means the Exodus occurs in 1386 BCE! This is the same date you get using 1947!
So Akhenaten's conversion to monotheis is more than enough evidence something major happened in Egypt. The entire nation became monotheists under Akhenaten, although for a short while. This period of Egyoptian history was then completely demolished and attempted to be erased totally. That explains why there are no open, extant records of the Israelites leaving Egypt. This was just an embarrassing time for the false gods of Egypt and their priests. This is part of the history of Egypt they did not want to remember, so they tried to erase it.
But this dating is supported by archaeology as well! The fall of Jericho is the closest we can get to dating the Exodus and thus identifying the pharaohs involved. The fall of LBA Jericho as dated by Kathleen Kenyon dates that fall by Joshua to 1350-1325 BCE. Here is her direct quote:
Kathleen Kenyon: Digging Up Jericho, Jericho and the Coming of the
Israelites, page 262:
"As concerns the date of the destruction of Jericho by the Israelites, all
that can be said is that the latest Bronze Age occupation should, in my
view, be dated to the third quarter of the fourteenth century B.C. This is a
date which suits neither the school of scholars which would date the entry
of the Israelites into Palestine to c. 1400 B.C. nor the school which
prefers a date of c. 1260 B.C."If the correct date for the Exodus is 1386 BCE, whether we use the VAT4956 or 1947, then Jericho's fall would be 40 years later in 1346 BCE. 1346 BCE falls within the archaeological range of 1350-1325 BCE! So you see, archaeologists always had the opportunity to date the Exodus during the reign of Amenhotep III and Akhenaten. But why would they? Akhenaten's monotheism would more than confirm the Exodus! Well, not the Exodus, but the 10 plagues. Of course, if one thing in the Bible, especially something miraculous like the 10 plagues is confirmed, then that suggests other things in the Bible is true! Here's my two vidoes on Akhenaten I have posted on YouTube. The Exodus truly did happen, but it is not as convincing when you don't have the specific pharaohs involved. But once you do, then you are convinced it really happened!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpkK6XoqRQo
Check the webpage for the second video!
thanks.
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mP
Lars: how do you explain nearly 40 years at Barnea Kadesh and theres nothing from Moses and his 3 million ?
Everybody knows where they were for the majority of the forty years but they cant find anything. Supposedly all the original exodus passengers died there and theres no mass graves ? What gives ?
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BU2B
The pyramids are dated back to before the "global" flood was supposed to have happened soo I dont think the Israelites could have built them
The great pyramid is accepted to have been completed around 2560 BC, 200 years before the flood, supposedly occured. Also It shows no signs of water damage
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Larsinger58
There is another confirmation that, indeed, Israelites, that is, Asiatics making bricks, were employed in Egypt. Remember, the Bible specifically states the Israelites were employed as brickmakers. There is a mural image of brickmakers in Egypt by non-Egyptians during the reign of Thuthmosis III. I'll post that photo below. But first, the chronology!
We know that the Exodus occurred at the beginning of Akhenaten's rule. An extant eclipse text from Ugarit dates year 12 of Akhenaten to 1375 BCE, it is called the KTU 1.78. That means his rule began in 1386 BCE, which would be the year of the Exodus. Moses was 80 years old at the time, so we can go back in time and determine a time when the Israelites were slaves in Egypt.
Now you can find various dates for the Egyptian dynasties. But there are two popular datings, "early" and "late". Early dates his rule from 1378 BCE as in this case:
you asked:
Where and when was Akhenaten born?
Akhenaten From; http://www.evi.com/q/where_and_when_was_akhenaten_born
The "late" dating dates his rule around 1353-1350 BCE. But they all follow the same length of rulerships in the dynasties, basically, so we will just use one of them to date 80 years back to when Moses was born and see who was ruling at the time and determine whether the Israelites were slaves during the reign of Thuthmosis III! This is a simple "relative" chronology comparison.
A typical list of the dynasties can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_dynasty_of_Egypt
This dates the beginning of Akhenaten's rule in 1351 BCE. 80 years earlier would be 1431 BCE. When we look to see who was ruling at this time, it turns out to be none other than thuthmosis III:
Thutmose III Menkheper(en)re 1479–1424 BC By this timeline, Moses would have been born in 1431 and thus 7 years before the end of the reign of Thuthmosis III. This means Thuthmosis III ordered the death of those Israelites, including Moses. This may also explain why Moses was named Moses! It is definitely an Egyptian name! The Bible says he was named that because he was drawn from the water. But this is a name based on the god, Toth/Thuth which is a water god.
At any rate, a mural shows brickmaking by some Asiatics, who certainly qualify as being the Israelites!! We've confirmed this is a time when they were doing the brickmaking and were slaves, so why aren't these the Israelites? Here's the reference:
From the rock-cut tomb of Rekhmire in the Valley of the Nobles comes this scene of Asiatics making bricks for the workshops of the Karnak Temple (second register from the bottom). An accompanying inscription says the workmen are prisoners of war from Nubia and Syro-Palestine, identified by their black and yellow skin color respectively. fROM: https://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2009/08/13/the-bible-according-to-karnak.aspx This is completely consistent with the Biblical account, whether or not anyone believes these are the actual israelites working here as brickmakers! But this is too specific not to be, right? So for those who want to rush and and shout: "THERE IS NO EVIDENCE ABSOLUTELY NONE THE ISRAELITES WERE EVER IN EGYPT!" It's just not true, is it? Plus the missing records from the specific time of the Exodus is explained by the attempt to obliterate this embarrassing time in Egypt!
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Larsinger58
Here's my other video about Akhenaten and the Exodus!
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Witness My Fury
LOL
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Finkelstein
This video goes into explaining that the original inhabitants probably came into the Nile region (Egypt) for work because of drought and famine in their
homeland of Canaan, perhaps not brought there originally as slaves but maybe later on indoctrinated into the culture as such.
Keep in mind that YHWH was a one of the gods of the Canaanite people pre Egyptian habitation.
