Problems with the "Bogus AWAA Fan Page"..

by OUTLAW 447 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  sabastious

  And some of us have said we don't care about the group itself one way or the other, or necessarily think the idea behind it is an awful idea...but we are disheartened by the arrogance and refusal to "make it right"...I only care about them rectifying the privacy issue and removing all of those they have inconvenienced or put at risk who did not consent to membership to their group, and sticking with laws and ethics in the future.

  Hello fizzywiglet, I think you are being unreasonable and hyperbolic. You are correct that creating a non profit organization is a heavy responsibilty, one that the Watchtower so expertly averts at the cost of countless lives of the innocent, namely children. The Watchtower operates under the pseudonym "faithful and discreet slave class". As a "theological arrangement" they are immune to any action against them personally. Steven Unthank had to craft from scratch a religious manifesto in order to even have a chance. People don't mess with religion because you are fighting a shadow. What you accuse AAWA of the Watchtower employs in spades. Focus on the culprit, not the resistance to it.

  The way in which the world works is fixed. What's spoiled by man's err is made good again by man's work. What do you think was going through the minds of the people who set up public drinking fountains for specific ethnicities? What about the person driving the bus where Rosa Parks refused to sit in the back? What exactly IS IT that changes the canvas of life where people stop and really look at what they are doing and then change? The answer is activism which is always aggressively persued. You bring up ethics like you invented them. AAWA was founded with ethics in mind. They are Rosa Parks. When some choose to stand up, they are ALWAYS met with opposition. It's simply the way it works. You can choose to be part of the problem, or the solution to it. Up to you.

  -Sab
• 

  fizzywiglet

  Good thing I learned long ago never to bother reading any of your extremist, unsupported crap, Sab. I see your avatar and check right out. :)
• 

  Tylinbrando

  Reading through the archives of JWN I can't help but notice the dissent against posters like Bill Bowen, Rick Ferron, Cedars, Barbara, and the like. Its only a handful that are so skeptical, I doubt they even number close to 50. Of course coming from a high control entity like Watchtower this is to be expected by some. Trust no one, believe in nothing, tear anything apart at a moments notice.

  What is intersting to me is that every one that has been hammered on JWN has gone on to have monumental success fighting the policies of Watchtower and helping countless thousands of individuals steer clear of and get away from Watchtower.

  AAWA is not different. With a high calibur board and list of successful actions against the Watchtower for many years already, they are bound to find even more success.

  Here we are grasping at straws trying to tear them apart before they get started over an issue of micked identity and the expose it caused. Its the same thing over and over on this forum.

  Two years ago a handful of you attacked me for going public against the Elder abusing my daughter. My posts were deleted and despite my participation and response to dissent I was quelled. Perhaps 1 or 2 posters showed compassion and PMed me their support. I found that support.

  Needless to say, I have gone on to see that Elder sitting in jail awaiting trial and prosecution. Despite all of you dissenters, narcissistic serial complainers telling me I was off my rocker, he will most likely spend many years in state prison and our civil suit will see him , the congo, and WT anguishing for years to come.

  I need to ask all of you who have an extreme BONER for AAWA and Cedars. What is your deal? What are you doing? What have you done? Seriously answer the questions and post it here for us to see.

  You can all bitch and moan until you are blue in the face. AAWA is launched and will soar.

  NOT one of you that blasted me 2 years ago has come forward to say sorry and eat crow. I expect nothing less from an internet forum where we can hide behind a laptop and post drivel behind a vodka tonic.

  Rant over,

  Bring it on...you obviously need someone to vent to.
• 

  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  They are exposing themselves to unnecessary risks here, especially in the case of the Incorporator, one Richard E. Kelly of Tucson Arizona. Sure, no one knows who John Cedars is, but Mr Kelly signed this charter and had the information notarised. They utilised the services of an attorney, but did they neglect to inform their attorney that one of the directors was using a false name and is a citizen and resident of another country, therefore outside the jurisdiction of the authority they were incorporating under? wha happened? is right, this isn't something you play around with anymore post-9/11. I also noticed that in the Articles of Incorporation, under the Indemnification of Directors clause, the directors are held immune from civil liability with three notable exceptions. Number two states:

  Acts or omissions which are not in good faith or which involved intentional malconduct or a willful violation of law.

  It would seem that using an alias and not specifying it as such would be "a felony to misrepresent information on documents submitted to us" and therefore be the 'omission' the second exemption was referring to. Not only would this expose Mr Kelly and/or cedars to criminal prosecution, but it would also strip both of them of indemnity from civil cases that could possibly be filed against them as individuals.
• 

  Tylinbrando

  Malvinas...you are dead wrong and acting under assumption and speculation. Unless you are versed in United States and International Law please refrain from posting your sensationalism.

  Again these mudslinging placards boil down to baseless attacks and slander. What is the point? What is your goal? What do you believe you have under your belt that has not already been covered through a litigious advisor?

  You are R E A C H I N G.

  Why?
• 

  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  How is it 'reaching' when fizzywiglet asked a direct question to the Arizona Corporations Commission about using an alias within the Articles of Incorporation and getting this reply:

  It is a felony to misrepresent information on documents submitted to us.

  Is the Arizona Corporations Commission dead wrong and full of speculation? And what does international law have anything to do with this? This is a corporation incorporated under the laws of the State of Arizona.

  Don't lecture me about being sensationalist.
• 

  fizzywiglet

  *shrug* I went to the Arizona Corporations Commission and asked them; so I've got it straight from the horse's mouth, which makes it exactly the opposite of speculation and sensationalism. As far as the paperwork they filed, it is available online as public record; I've already linked it.

  And Malvinas, the issue isn't that he doesn't specify it as an alias on the official papers. The issue is that you can't use an alias. You must provide the real names and addresses of all directors/officers of the corporation. It's a matter of public record. They're no longer an unofficial, grassroots group. They want to play nonprofit, there are standards that corporations and nonprofits are held to. One of them is that your name is public record, and you will be held accountable for the actions of your nonprofit. You don't get to anonymously do whatever you want to do, whenever you want to do it. The end.

  Nobody's reaching and nobody's slandering. Nobody's "persecuting" AAWA or trying to take them down or any of these other stupid, emotional histrionics AAWA and their supporters seem to be stirring up in an attempt to deflect from the real issue.

  I'm sure many of them are good people and want to do good things. Fine. Nobody's disputing that. We've asked them to correct a serious deficiency and stop putting people at risk. We've asked them to adhere to laws and ethics from here on out. These are very simple and reasonable requests which AAWA, not the rest of us, have blown out of all proportion. The actual problem takes about 5 minutes to correct. They just don't want to, because it would mean no more cutting corners. All these other "appeal to emotion" or "well, what have you done?!" fallacies they're using to muddy the waters have no bearing.
• 

  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  Thanks fizzywiglet. So they got him on two counts really. You can't use an alias, and even if you could, the argument could be made that an intentional omission of crucial information was made in bad faith, therefore cancelling out your indemnity from liability in civil cases. The use of an alias itself is subject to criminal penalties, and such behaviour committed by a director can lead to a civil case being filed on an individual basis.
• 

  Dagney

  I've been thinking about all this.

  First of all, I too think it's a good idea to have some sort of organization that represents the the values of the exJW around the world. JWN has accomplished much as far as providing a place for people to read and research, and maybe meet others, but I see need for something more.

  On my FB feed today was a post by one of the members of AAWA. He, like 99% of the us, has a sad story resulting from the shunning policy that the WBTS enforces. I read about 30 comments of others, with snippets into their stories as well. I also read the anger and frustration at the responses here at JWN toward AAWA. I'm not sure they understand this thread, and the violation of the privacy issue from the last week. Most of them don't read here, and stated that they wanted to read about what they were hearing regarding the lack of support for AAWA. And, well, I get it now.

  AAWA is giving them an avenue to do SOMETHING other than posting on a DB board. And it makes them excited and feel good. I get it. I saw it through their eyes and I had an "Aha" moment. It appears the board members are truly busy getting things started there. And remember, they are spread out all over the world.

  What happened with the FB groups is appalling as far as I'm concerned, and my opinion has not changed. The people added should be notified in the very least, if they are not going to remove the page. That is a serious breach of trust. I think the original set up of the FB page was not done malicously; whoever did it didn't understand all that was involved. The resistence to make it right was surprising. Yes, it is probably fixed now as far as visibility, but by the comments made here they show they still don't get it. That is dissappointing, because I assume the majority of the members of the board voted to leave it as is. But that is their business, I run my business differently. If you are going to use social media, or any media for that matter, I hope they have good counsel and carry liability insurance.

  I took a little time to look at the 4 FB exJW groups that I joined. I seriously never go to the pages; I check FB to see family and friends and recipes mostly. I could see on each of the groups different boxes, some could add others to the group, some you had to email, some you clicked a box and a admin or mod would add you, which I actually did today with a new group, not AAWA. I am guessing perhaps one of the reasons AAWA is leaving the 1300 group added members is so maybe they can see the activity they are doing and will participate. Again, just a guess. The comments of "our numbers are growing by leaps and bounds" when they were manually added, well, that doesn't add to the credibility of what they will say in the future.

  The information regarding the corporation, ai yi yi. Boy, in this day and age I sure hope everything was done above board. I work for a "worldly" company and we don't take a ***t without consulting an attorney to make sure we comply with every law and regulation of the land. So, I wonder what will happen there.

  Lastly, I think AAWA is going to grow and be just fine. I recognize there are many people who want to do something, have their voices heard against the WBTS. It is not simple to run a successful business. Mistakes are always made...you just try to make fewer smaller ones. They may not think so, but this FB debaucle was a valuable lesson.

  Tylinbrando, congratulations and kudos for your efforts in getting that slimebag behind bars. Well done.

  The end.
• 

  mamochan13

  Well said, DAgney. I"ve been thinking how disappointing this has all been. I hope AAWA learns from this as it grows. They've made some serious missteps, and it's unfortunate they are choosing not to restore credibility by taking ownership. Time will tell, I guess.