Ripping a person’s faith away, a heavy responsibility?

by Seraphim23 207 Replies latest jw friends

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  LisaRose

  EP : This seems to be a bit all over the place. Is the idea to simply be nice? If so, that's not a bad idea, usually. Is the idea to NOT challenge people or debate things if it makes someone uncormfortable? If so, that's not going to happen.

  Who said anything about not challenging beliefs? It's what a forum is about. It isn't even about being nice. I thought I was pretty clear about that, but obviously not. It'll give it one last shot. It's good to challenge beliefs, point out flaws in logic, expose circular reasoning, expose mis quotes and identify falsehoods. It is not helpful to use scorn or ridicule, be condescending, patronizing or rude. It is not necessary to pretend, be fake nice or not state truths.

  If people can't see the difference between challenging beliefs and heaping scorn and ridicule, then there is nothing more to talk about.
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  Who said anything about not challenging beliefs?

  Plenty of people. I was simply asking a question.
• 

  villagegirl

  QCMBR - Who is the Artist on this piece ?

  I would love to see more of their work.
• 

  MegaDude

  "You sound like you’re very fond of your brother MegaDude. I hope that the silver lining of the cloud that is the JWs will be that any kids you or your brother and sisters have won’t have the same hardships. It’s less lightly now by the sound of it, due to you leaving and your brother leaving. Perhaps you had a hand in that also?"

  Sure. Love the guy. Not just a brother, a good friend. Unfortunately my brother's children are being turned against him, to see him as the enemy in his own home, and they are only 10 and 6 years old. One has stopped speaking to him and is hateful towards him. It's so unfair. So unfair. It's so unfair.

  People can argue that you yourself can't rip a person's faith away, but within your relationships you can wield great influence that can start them down a path of very real suffering that may last a lifetime. Shouldn't one consider all the consequences of one's actions if one is a trusted friend, if one posseses some power of persuasion over that person? And I pushed very hard on the rare occasions my brother relaxed his shunning and would see me because he missed me. All I'm saying is it's not only about getting loved ones out of the JWs when there can be resulting severe collateral damage.
• 

  talesin

  This seems to be a bit all over the place. Is the idea to simply be nice? If so, that's not a bad idea, usually. Is the idea to NOT challenge people or debate things if it makes someone uncormfortable? If so, that's not going to happen.

  I agree, EP, in that this thread is all over the place. I 'think' this is about some folks being rude and dismissive........... at least, that's my feeling.

  There are some posters who hide behind the excuse "Oh, I didn't call YOU a moron --- I just called your POST moronic".

  You are a vibrant, passionate poster ... and hell, afraid of nuttin' ... but I don't see you picking on 'noobs' who are honestly trying to find their way. It's true that you will blast 'both barrels' in an argument. You are a worthy debater. :P

  But there is a difference between doing battle with words in a fair fight, and calling some newly awakened person's comments 'moronic' or 'stupid'. Some people, regularly post mean and denigrating comments to people of faith, who are new to this type of forum,, and indeed, the 'world'. I deplore these types of comments,,, "that is moronic" "idiocy" ... that type of thing ..

  Anyone who understands basic human behaviour knows that this type of put-down makes people defensive, and discourages them from exploring the other point of view.

  That, imho, is the point of this much-obfuscated thread.

  And yes, as the OP said,,, the TITLE could have been more well-phrased.

  xo

  tal
• 

  talesin

  ADDENDUM ... lol, rip me to shreds if you like! I am hardened, and have been OUT for many years ... not questioning, not fragile ... muah!

  t /
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  You are a vibrant, passionate poster ... and hell, afraid of nuttin' ... but I don't see you picking on 'noobs' who are honestly trying to find their way. It's true that you will blast 'both barrels' in an argument. You are a worthy debater.

  Why thank you, that's very sweet of you :)
• 

  still thinking

  So this thread is about 'someone' but we don't know who. picking on new posters?

  I agree...thats rank. But I'm not convinced that is happening that much that it warrants a thread about it. I mean seriously. Just tell a mod if it's that bad. And address the issue directly instead of beating around the bush like this thread has done.

  All I've seen on this thread is....this is not ok...but oh, I don't mean you. And that is not ok...but I respect these posters...

  Sometimes I REALLY wish people would get to the point so we know what we are REALLY talking about?

  ARE we talking about brand new posters being shot down in flames? Is that it? I mean, one minute I'm being told to 'google' and when I ask for clarification of exactly WHAT we are talking about. The next thing I know, I'm being told by another poster that I don't understand (which I had already stated myself), and we are talking about THIS forum. Well why would I want to google then if it's about THIS forum?

  Honestly, who are these people being horrible to new posters? I must have missed it. I have seen it when a JW apologist arrives on the scene. But most people end up having quite good discussions with them. Often the atheists seem more tolerant with JW apololgists I might add. The on the fencers seem to have a lot less tolerance for JW apologists, which is a shame because its a great way to discuss doctrines and see the ridiculousness of them all.

  Or am I still wrong, and we are talking about respecting, and challenging peoples faith.....nicely?
• 

  Phizzy

  I am as confused as you ST, as to quite what this thread is trying to establish. One quibble with your last sentence, respecting peoples beliefs is wrong, if those beliefs are harmful in any way, and deluded religious beliefs always are, they do not deserve any respect.

  The person who holds them does, so we do not attack them personally, though they may feel, because their beliefs are dear to them, that it is a personal attack, and they may take offense, so how we express our disdain for beliefs is important.

  To destroy someones faith IS a heavy responsibility, and can give them all kinds of problems, hence it needs to be done sensitively and slowly, and the judgement needs to be carefully made as to whether it should be done at all.
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  EntirelyPossible

  To destroy someones faith IS a heavy responsibility, and can give them all kinds of problems, hence it needs to be done sensitively and slowly, and the judgement needs to be carefully made as to whether it should be done at all.

  How could a poster on an internet forum destroy someone's faith?