Better it is to have the brutal truth than a comforting lie.
Ripping a persons faith away, a heavy responsibility?
by Seraphim23 207 Replies latest jw friends
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Seraphim23
I say, `run as fast as one can when the claim comes down, "I have the truth!"`.
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Vidiot
You know what they say; you're responsible for the life you save...
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Xanthippe
I am so glad you started this thread Seraphim. I have been going on about this for months. Whether it is on the believers versus atheists threads or the paranormal threads. This forum is supposed to be about recovery from a cult. Recovery means that when people come here they are often in a bad way. They may ask to be gently helped towards what we at this stage in our evolution and our current level of empirical knowledge think of as reality. There is no need to rip people's faith away or treat them as stupid for having questions about the things they were never allowed to even think about before.
d - said- Better it is to have the brutal truth than a comforting lie.
No there is never any need to be brutal to anyone. Look around the world, it is full of brutality, some compassion please.
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Qcmbr
Many people will struggle like hell to defend the bag of rocks they carry. Once relieved only the fools regret not having the former weight and will start to collect new debris. It is an exhausting struggle to prise a loved shackle from a devoted slave but if seen through to the end is a worthwhile endeavour. Most people are too worried and polite to even try and like motorway rubberneckers drive by expressing shock, trite sympathy and the odd judgemental soundbite. There are those who are worse than all , they carry pocketfulls of extra pebbles to add to others' sacks; they are easiest to spot when they go by the name of 'Elder' but they are all around us.
Please know that those most outspoken here who defend rational , fact driven logic and fight hard to expose, examine and discredit magical thinking are not the enemy. Should even one single speck of rubble in someone's backpack be found to be factually correct it will be treated like precious metal. If it helps ask yourself if the person you find on the opposite side of a discussion is trying to remove insubstantial, evidence lite rubble and replace it with biteable, weighable gold and if they are , struggle less. The fiercest critics are often fighting hardest to help you.
Thanks terapod sapien and Abaddon for helping shift my bag.
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Seraphim23
I myself am certainly not saying that `logical empiricists` are the enemy Qcmbr. Dogmatics exists as much in the world of those, as you call it, with `magical thinking` as those who only stick to a empirical scientific world view. I’m not targeting any group in particular but you may have your pebbles without knowing it; either in your worldview or zealousness to enlighten others. If you used to be a JW, then you were once a `fool` by your own standards without knowing it. Some take longer than others to recognise lies and helping others in that process is good of course. Drug addicts if taken off the drugs too quickly can die of withdrawal systems. One can help wean them off at the patient’s own pace or they can be given a less toxic replacement. What one shouldn’t do is leave them until they are clean. One has to be sure though that the replacement drug doesn’t become the drug of choice or B, get promoted as the cure to all their ills.
Xanthippe as well as Talesin and Jeffj and everyone else, thanks for you kind words.
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exwhyzee
Yes it is....I think about that everytime I'm tempted to talk to a JW about my views on the religion. I don't have anything to offer them in terms of a replacement (at the moment) and I sometimes think if things are working for them....why rock their boat ?
When it has stopped working for them and they ask me directly for my thoughts, then I'll talk openly to them. I'd hate to think that I was the cause of someone having what may be the only thing keeping them afloat, pulled out from under them.
When I'm tempted to speak out about my feelings and experiences with the JW's, I ask myself what my motivation is. If I'm only doing it because it makes me feel vindicated or that I've paid them back for the damage done to my life, I realize that isn't a good enough . To me, a good motive is one of true concern for someone elses welfare rather than of my own instant gratification.
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OnTheWayOut
In a world of interaction, I have to agree that you can't really convert JW's with bonking them over the head with facts.
For the most part, that's true of Christians, Muslims, Democrats, Conservatives, Gun-lovers, smokers, etc.
But, I assume you mainly speak of this forum and similar avenues on the internet where people present what they see as clear evidences of their point of view.
This forum and similar places facilitate deep debate on such subjects. It is the proper place for it. If some people cannot walk away without being all upset, perhaps they shouldn't be here.
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Bugbear
Seraphim 23
Like your comments and subject!? If a person lose their very base for living, you must have something to replace it with, before they are crashing! Therefore never ever argue on a personal level, just argue about thoughts, ideas, from their own conscience. If they cannot see the trouble their ideas has for humanity, about shunning people, about homosexuals, about blood transfusions a.s.f. there is no idea, continuing argument. Remember the little boy in the Anderson saga “The new clothes for the King”. He only told other people what he actually saw. And all the grown adults must agree with him.
Arguments must be based on one’s own thoughts. Something you really can see for yourselves. If the persons have any conscience by his/her own, he/she will gradually change their mind, and sooner or later they understand how wrong a former viewpoint was. I have passed that process during 20 years and I am still not Shure, that my present Atheistic , will be the idea that I will have when I dies.
Bugbear
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mrsjones5
This forum and similar places facilitate deep debate on such subjects. It is the proper place for it. If some people cannot walk away without being all upset, perhaps they shouldn't be here.
Yep
