Ripping a person’s faith away, a heavy responsibility?

by Seraphim23 207 Replies latest jw friends

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  LisaRose

  ROP: Pipping a person's faith away" -- is that even possible? A die-hard believer will shrug off even the most compelling proof, and those who aren't sure about it don't have their faith wrapped too tightly to begin with -- no ripping needed, not even nudging.

  It's true, many people who come here actually don't have much of a faith, or they wouldn't be questioning and come here. The question is, do you want to help them out of the the Watchtower, or if they are already out of the Watchtower, help them move on mentally? If the answer is no, you want to heap ridicule on them because they still have some kind of faith in God, then by all means heap on the ridicule. You may not be ripping away their faith as stated in the OP, but you may cause them to retreat back to Watchtower, or back to not knowing what to believe.

  If you want to help then learn to reason (we know we didn't learn THAT in the dubs, did we?) and break free of the dubbie circular reasoning, then you must must realize some of the ones who argue the most are are really just trying to convince themselves. If you discuss without ridicule, you might help them along their spiritual path, whether that path be to Athiesm or not. You already have confirmation of one person that he was turned off by the ridicule of some here and did not come back for years. There may be some who are still figuring out what they believe, post Watchtower. If they can't express what their current thoughts without getting smacked down, how are they going to figure it all out? It's not that you can't confront the weaknesses in their logic, it's how you do it.

  TOP: Those who do bear a heavy responsibility are those who try to impose their heavy-handed beliefs on others

  You are talking about right wing Christians, but aren't some of the Athiests a bit heavy handed as well? At least as far as some of the discussions here. I am not right wing Christian BTW, and I agree with you about prayer in school, etc. But it works both ways. Respect the person as a human being, no matter how a weak their argument, argue the logical fallacies in their beliefs, but don't try to make them feel stupid for voicing an opinion. That may make you feel better, but it won't likely do anything for them
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  Seraphim23

  Perhaps I should have titled it “ruthless attempts at ripping a faith away, a heavy responsibly!”. You have a valid point about it not being possible to do, but that’s not really what I was trying to get at.
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  *lost*

  RoP
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  Seraphim23

  LisaRose very good points you wrote above. What you say is what I was trying to convey in the title, athough not as well as you just did.
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  GromitSK

  I wonder sometimes if people confuse respect for another's opinion with simple good manners. My reading of the OP is that it is about good manners and not about accepting whatever a person says irrespective of the evidence they provide (or don't) to support that opinion or belief.

  The other element that occurs to me is motive. Why am I posting on a particular thread or entering into a particular debate? It is difficult to truly know another person's motive, or our own sometimes perhaps. If I am trying to persuade another person to my point of view, I generally find it useful to approach things in a way that is more likely to resonate and incline them to listen. A direct confrontation often provokes a defensive closed-minded response. It might make the person using it feel better but I doubt it will open a closed mind. Ridicule either outright or more subtle is an attack however one looks at it and unless deployed carefully will often be taken personally. It defeats the object IMHO.

  Referring to others beliefs as "fairy tales", "stupid" etc seems simply rude and arrogant to me. In the same way that implying a person doesn't share one's beliefs because they are in some kind of spiritual deficit is rude and condescending. Not to mention unproductive.
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  Scully

  Well, I would say that the JWs that bullied me into deciding they weren't Jesus' true disciples have as much "responsibility" for killing my faith as I would have if I actively tried to dissuade a JW from their belief.

  While I don't actively try to dissuade JWs or anyone else from what they want to believe as The Truth™, I won't tolerate anyone trying to re-indoctrinate me or using religious seduction techniques on my children.
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  *lost*

  Lisa rose

  Grom

  very well put.
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  return of parakeet

  LisaRose: If the answer is no, you want to heap ridicule on them because they still have some kind of faith in God, then by all means heap on the ridicule.

  I agreed in an earlier post that common courtesy should be practised more on this site.

  You are talking about right wing Christians, but aren't some of the Athiests a bit heavy handed as well?

  Yes, some atheists are heavy-handed too. I have myself posted some less-than-polite opinions. I agree with Seraphim's suggestion that the person at the computer at the other end deserves at least as much courtesy as we would give strangers meeting face-to-face.

  This thread is a reminder for everyone who gets carried away in a discussion and resorts to ad hominem attacks.
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  mrsjones5

  Like what happened to me a few pages ago? That was an ad hominem attack and if anyone noticed I did not respond in kind.
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  *lost*

  you shouldn't give it out if you can't take it back - and then cry victim