The JWs slipped up again with the same Alpha and Omega error from 1978

by booker-t 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  mP

  @jeffro

  You are telling me ab otu science that we both know. However the author of revelation didnt know about any of that. For them the seasons and the zodiac were eternal. Anyone reading the text jus ta few hundred years ago would have made the astrological connection. Its only until recent times that there has been a disconnection.

  Look at any major cathedral or synogogue and yo u wil l find astrology everywhere. Its the basic truth that nobody wants to admit. Start with st Peters etc. Back in the day astrology was considered science, Copernicus were all originally astrologers who performed a few other observations.
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  NeverKnew

  Marked. Thank you! :)
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  Jeffro

  You are telling me ab otu science that we both know. However the author of revelation didnt know about any of that.

  No, I'm saying because they didn't know, they made up stories that aren't consistent with what we know now.
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  Cold Steel

  Well, Lucifer means "son of the morning" or "morning star" (terms used for Venus). It has no reference to being a false sun except by association to the planet Venus by other cultures. Revelation isn't about astrology, for no one has been able to predict anything in the book using astrology signs or readings. It does use numerology, which was common in apocalyptic books like Daniel, and many of its prophecies have already taken place; and the rest appear to have excellent chances of being fulfilled.
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  Jeffro

  Cold Steel:

  Revelation isn't about astrology, for no one has been able to predict anything in the book using astrology signs or readings.

  Revelation is a lot of nonsense. But even aside from that, astrology is also a lot of nonsense. So there's no reason at all to expect that anyone could accurately predict anything 'astrological' from Revelation even if it is 'really' about astrology.

  many of its prophecies have already taken place;

  No... (though some of the things in the author's past had already taken place)

  and the rest appear to have excellent chances of being fulfilled.

  ... and, No.
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  mP

  ColdSteel

  Well, Lucifer means "son of the morning" or "morning star" (terms used for Venus). It has no reference to being a false sun except by association to the planet Venus by other cultures.

  mP:

  Venus was a false sun for the anciets. it comes before and after the true Sun which gives everyone and everything on earth life and warmth.

  Revelation when it mentions Lucifer is merely stating the obvious and fact. Its not making a comment about any individual spirit or anything.

  ColdSteel

  Revelation isn't about astrology, for no one has been able to predict anything in the book using astrology signs or readings.

  mP:

  Revelation is not prophecy its history. It was written after and about Nero who is the 7th and 10th star as well as the number of the beast mentioned. The ancients believed that nero was rresurrected which is also confiemed by the author. In the old days letters also did double duty as numbers and if you turn 666 into a word it spells neron caesar. The oldest copies of revelation actually have 616 which spells Nero Caesar.

  ColdSteel

  It does use numerology, which was common in apocalyptic books like Daniel, and many of its prophecies have already taken place; and the rest appear to have excellent chances of being fulfilled.

  MP:
  The numerology in Rev is astrological. 7 = the heavenly bodies (planets ) and 12 for the months.
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  mP

  Jeffro

  Revelation is a lot of nonsense. But even aside from that, astrology is also a lot of nonsense. So there's no reason at all to expect that anyone could accurately predict anything 'astrological' from Revelation even if it is 'really'about astrology.

  mP: YOu are misunderstanding astrology in ancient times. Astrology was how the ancients kept track of the seasons and time which was very important for their harvest and agriculture. Its easy to see how they associated this star appearing here to control the start of summer, which is exactly what the egyptians thought of the appearance of Sirius and the flooding of the Nile. Dont compare the nonsense in the papers today and give the ancients some credit for understanding time and calendars.

  Revelation is not prophecy its history written after thef act.
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  Jeffro

  YOu are misunderstanding astrology in ancient times.

  No, I'm not.
  

  Astrology was how the ancients kept track of the seasons and time which was very important for their harvest and agriculture. Its easy to see how they associated this star appearing here to control the start of summer, which is exactly what the egyptians thought of the appearance of Sirius and the flooding of the Nile.

  You're combining astrology with astronomy. They did both, but what they did know of astronomy doesn't validate their ideas about astrology.

  Dont compare the nonsense in the papers today and give the ancients some credit for understanding time and calendars.

  Their astrology was not exactly the same as, but not less nonsensical than, modern astrology.

  Revelation is not prophecy its history written after thef act.

  Duh. Likely while under the influence of ergot.
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  Splash

  Getting back to the original post:

  THE "ALPHA AND OMEGA"OF REVELATION 22:12 REFERS TO... Jesus - Light (1930) p. 268

  Jehovah - WT 53 1/1 p. 31

  Jesus - WT 55 7/1 p. 387

  An angel (speaking for Jehovah) - Awake! 66 6/8 p. 28

  Jehovah - WT 67 11/15 p. 680

  Jehovah - Awake! 8/22/78 p.28
  Jesus - WT 10/1/78 p.15

  Jehovah - Revelation Grand Climax (1988) p. 316 para. 6

  Jesus - Revelation Grand Climax (1988) p. 319 para. 15

  Jehovah - WT 99 12/1 p. 19

  Jesus - WT 03 12/15 p. 21

  Splash
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  Jeffro

  Splash:

  Jesus - Light (1930) p. 268
  Jehovah - WT 53 1/1 p. 31
  Jesus - WT 55 7/1 p. 387
  An angel (speaking for Jehovah) - Awake! 66 6/8 p. 28
  Jehovah - WT 67 11/15 p. 680
  Jehovah - Awake! 8/22/78 p.28
  Jesus - WT 10/1/78 p.15
  Jehovah - Revelation Grand Climax (1988) p. 316 para. 6
  Jesus - Revelation Grand Climax (1988) p. 319 para. 15
  Jehovah - WT 99 12/1 p. 19
  Jesus - WT 03 12/15 p. 21

  Surely you're not implying that they... don't know what the hell they're talking about?!

  Except... Page 319 of the Revelation Climax book does not call Jesus the "Alpha and Omega". Read the introductions in paragraphs 6, 9, 13 and 15 on pages 316-318.

  The fact that the author of Revelation probably intended to refer to Jesus as the "Alpha and Omega" in the passage is not the same as the attribution indicated in the Revelation Climax book.