The JWs slipped up again with the same Alpha and Omega error from 1978

by booker-t 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  mP

  Jeffro

  our quotes about Copernicus and Tycho demonstrate the point I already made. As I've already stated, and as you've also said here , they - like the Babylonians - did both . That doesn't mean that both are the same thing . In any case, even if you like to consider them to have been the same thing , it remains that the elements that actually were of value were those parts related to astronomy , and not those aspects that were actually astrology .

  mP:

  Im not denying they did both. My point is for them the distinction we make between science and observation and stupid speculation about spirits in the sky did not exist for the ancients.

  MP:We can see this in Job 32, where the author is using them hand in hand and interchangable.

  Jeffro:

  Um... no.

  MP:
  Sorry i meant JOb 38.

  http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/job/38.html
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  Jeffro

  mP:

  Sorry i meant JOb 38.

  The statements about constellations in Job 38 sound more like astronomy than astrology. It doesn't say anything about those stars influencing anything in particular.

  More broadly (and I'm sure you'd agree), the whole chapter is a good demonstration of human ingorance at the time about astronomy, cosmology, geology, meteorology and evolution. Not Job's ignorance, but that of the author. The somewhat 'poetic' questions have since been answered, and are hardly 'mysteries of god'.
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  mP

  Jeffro

  The statements about constellations in Job 38 sound more like astronomy than astrology . It doesn't say anything about those stars influencing anything in particular.

  mP:

  Look at 31-33, and notice that we have some astronomy mixed in with astrology where the author talks about how the constellations control our lives on earth.

  38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades , or loose the bands of Orion?	(38:31) "Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades?" Does God live in the Pleiades? Jehovah's Witnesses used to believe that God lives on the planet Alcyone in the Pleiades cluster. The only biblical justification for this was this verse and 2 Chronicles 6:21. This belief was clearly stated in "Reconciliation" (1928): "But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared with the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God." This is just one of many JW beliefs that has since died a quiet death and is no longer mentioned in the Watchtower.
  38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
  38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
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  mP

  Jeffro

  More broadly (and I'm sure you'd agree), the whole chapter is a good demonstration of human ingorance at the time about astronomy, cosmology, geology, meteorology and evolution.

  mP:

  Of course i agree entirely with your statement. Im just trying to ppoint out that the authors of various books equally show this ignorance and they appreciate and refer to astrological themes to explain how god works. For me God is simply nature for them. The jews were the same as their neighbours. They all had slaves, treated women as animals, believed in astrology and so on. They all believecd the same kind of thing, a bit like today where all xians today are the same but have minor differences, but in the end are they are inconsequencial.
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  Jeffro

  mP:

  Look at 31-33, and notice that we have some astronomy mixed in with astrology where the author talks about how the constellations control our lives on earth.

  Verse 31 refers to the positions of the stars relative to each other, in reference to the author's ignorance about how constellations stay the same (over relatively brief periods, cosmologically speaking) = astronomy. Verse 32 refers to when certain constellations seasonally appear = astronomy. Verse 33 is the only one that might allude to astrology as distinct from astronomy, though it is variously translated, and may be intended to refer to the affect of celestial bodies on seasons.

  See http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Job%2038:33 for multiple translations of the verse.

  None of the verses says anything about affecting 'our lives'; the word translated "earth" ('erets) specifically means land.

  The Skeptics Annotated Bible (which you've quoted above) also doesn't anything about astrology in reference to those verses.
• 

  Badfish

  It all comes down to who is "THE ALMIGHTY?"

  Revelation 1:8:

  “I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” (NWT)

  New International Version (©2011) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." New Living Translation (©2007) "I am the Alpha and the Omega--the beginning and the end," says the Lord God. "I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come--the Almighty One." English Standard Version (©2001) “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” New American Standard Bible (©1995) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009) I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "the One who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty." International Standard Version (©2012) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," declares the Lord God, "the one who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty." NET Bible (©2006) "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God--the one who is, and who was, and who is still to come--the All-Powerful! Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) "I am the A and the Z," says the Lord God, the one who is, the one who was, and the one who is coming, the Almighty. King James 2000 Bible (©2003) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, says the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. American King James Version I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, said the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. American Standard Version I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. Douay-Rheims Bible I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, saith the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. Darby Bible Translation I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. English Revised Version I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty. Webster's Bible Translation I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty. Weymouth New Testament "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "He who is and was and evermore will be--the Ruler of all." World English Bible "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Young's Literal Translation 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming -- the Almighty.'