Bible Writers not just ignorant "goat herders" (page 7)

Caedes

How they managed to construct Pyramids, and if I recall, how Mediaeval Blacksmiths cast chain mail etc etc are mysteries, but do not speak of greater intelligence than is evident today, just some knowledge they acquired, and then was lost.

Phizzy,

Mediaeval construction techniques for chain mail are extremely well known. A piece of metal would be drawn into wire, this would then be heated and wound around a former to create a tight spiral. Individual rings would be cut off the spiral with a chisel giving you open individual loops with a twist. Once you have a large quantity of these rings they would be 'knitted' together to form the chainmail and then the loops would be closed with pliers. The more interlinking of the individual rings you had the better (and more expensive) the mail. Some were riveted as well to provide additional protection.

Making chainmail is exactly the same today, the skill is in the assembly of the mail, there is no easy way to do it and it is very labour intensive. It is very difficult to get it to fit properly without sagging or reducing your movement.

The other main drawback to mail is the weight which is why eventually it was just used to cover the gaps in full harness (plate armour)

Chain mail is never cast.

Sorry for the off topic post, but mediaeval armour and history is very interesting to me.

Larsinger58

Interesting how "ignorant" people are of ancient history and what presumptions are made.

I've studied a lot of ancient history, of course, and one of the things I was very impressed with was the Amarna Period. During that time, Egypt was in power and was protectorate of its vassal city-states in Canaan. There was extensive communication between the pharaoh and everybody else in the empire. The letters are fascinating. Egypt had a policy of having the royals of all the other countries under its influence being educated in Egypt. But a lot of the letters were not written in Egyptian by in Canaanite, the same linguistic style the Hebrews used. I suppose this had a lot to do with the fact that two mothers of the 12 sons of Israel were Canaanite.

But there was evidence of writing and reading before then. Case in point, Judah, who slept with his daughter-in-law, Tamar, who posed as a prostitute. Once you start to study the ancient cultures you learn more details and get a more accurate and precise knowledge of what actually was going on. In any case, apparently the practice of temple prostitution was more like a membership drive than a bake sale. The idea was to get membership in the Baal cult. So as a requirement for using the prostitutes, the clients had to become "members" of Baal, as it were, and were given personal items testifying to that, like a ring or a rod and cord. On these items were engraved their name and a statement saying "I belong to Baal." So that is what Tamar presented to Judah when he was about to burn her for being a pagan temple prostitute. It showed his hypocrisy since she knew using the prostitutes wasn't just an opportunity to relieve sexual tension, it involved the pagan worship. Even so, it was interesting the prostiutes could write on these items, if only having a basic knowledge of the written language.

My concern is that the average concept of literacy in ancient times seems to be downgraded to less than it really was. I mean, think about David who wrote the psalms. Some are organized based on the Jewish alphabet. So what people presume and what they know is sometimes two very different things. After all, didn't God himself write the ten commandments?

gingerbread

The land of "Canaan" that the Isrealites settled was an excellent choice from an economic perspective. It was centrally located between many thriving cultures/nations. What we now know as Palestine was a major corridor for trade between Africa, southern Europe and the near east. With trade came cultural exchange - ideas, stories, beliefs. Most ancient Hebrew writings share the same plot lines with all of these other cultures - from Adam and Eve, the Great Flood or Jonah in the big fish. These stories (myths) were shared with these early Hebrew traders.

Not to burst your happy bubble - but, there is no physical, archeological evidence of a large group (it is claimed to be up to 2 million) of people every being present on the Sinai Peninsula. Moses leading a group of people out of Egyptian "captivity" may have happened. But they never wandered for 40 years in the wilderness.

Comatose

Larsinger58

I want to share another example of Bible vs. secular history that I was very impressed by.

Most Bible scholars don't realize that there was a six-year co-rulership between Ahab and his son, Jehoram. When the Bible says Jehoram "became king" in the 5th year of Jehoram of Judah who became king in the second year of Jehoram of Israel. That meant that Jehoram became king again in his own sixth year. That, in turn, meant that he was co-ruler with his father Ahab who died in his sixth year.

This helps us understand a statement in the Moabite stone that says that the king of Moab rebelled against the "king of Israel" in the middle of his reign. The Bible says the king of Moab rebelled after the death of Ahab. Now some think this represents a conflict. But Jehoram ruled for 12 years. So the reference is accurate and confirmatory. That is, that Jehoram ruled for 12 years and that Ahab died in his sixth year, confirming a 6-year co-rulership. This is specific confirmation of the Bible's history with that of an interacting pagan culture. This also means the Moabites could write as well.

But also of note, among all the Bible scholars, including the WTS, how to align the co-rulerships correctly is not well understood. n fact, the WTS apparently didn't want to deal with it as all and created a timeline based on the Judean kings which meant there were many gaps in the Israelite kingships, which there were not. So the "ignorance" is not of those ancient peoples as much as our ignorance and understanding of their cultures.

BluesBrother

The O/P makes a good point about the derogatory stand taken by armchair critics of The Scripures.Ad Hominem references are common enough. Is it really important though? People will beleive what they will. It only goes to show the shallowness of their arguments if that is the best they can do.

Larsinger58

Also, even though this is not ancient history, but apparently the concept of charging interest for loans is fascinating. The gospels talk about BANKS! My concept and I think a general concept of banks is that it is a modern invention, but apparently it was around a long time ago. Banking and charging interest is not such a modern invention.

Vidqun

Cofty, a lot of those laws were regulatory, rather than freshly instituted. Many of those practices did exist but had to be regulated, e.g., slavery.

Think of how far we have come in the medical field. But only about 1860 did Dr. Semmelweis introduce hand washing to decrease mortality rates. And here’s a few gems of "knowledge" from Encyclopaedia Britannica (1768):

US state of California was spelt with two L's and is described as “a large country of the West Indies. Unknown whether it is an island or a peninsula”.

Electricity was advised for curing some illnesses, including deafness and toothache in children.

The solar system was described as having six planets; Uranus and Neptune had yet to be discovered!

Flying dragons were reportedly to be found in Africa, the East Indies and America.

Homo sapiens were sub divided into five varieties: the American, the European, the Asiatic, the African and the monstrous.

Phizzy

Thanks Caedes for the chain mail stuff, I did wonder about that as I wrote it, as it was a piece of "folklore" I heard as a child that we didn't know how it was done.

punkofnice

Not wishing to sound like a bitter mentally diseased apostate the Jehu elders should slaughter.....................BUT............I care not a jot what the writers of the bible were or were not.......it still ISN'T the word of god.

Bible Writers not just ignorant "goat herders"

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