Meh... they're just getting tired of all the damage caused by the locusts and scorpions. (Revelation 9)
Symposium: Beware of Apostates! - 'God's Word is Truth!' District Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses 2013 - not on JW.ORG
by mindnumbed 121 Replies latest watchtower bible
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jam
This kind of talk is only hurting the borg it,s hateful. They are
doing more damage to themselves. By harping on Apostates, it
only draw attention to what the hell is all this fuss about Apostates.
What are they saying that worry the FDS. Let me see what all the
fuss is about. Dumb nuts.
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Designer Stubble
Apostates are not sincere in their expressions. Their aim is to manipulate your mind.
Talking about the pot calling the kettle black!
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LostGeneration
Thanks mindnumbed and DS for the transcript.
They are still using their old playbook when it comes to "apostates" IMHO. Talking about FS? Taking away from their flock instead of starting our own "churches"? Please. Do they really not know what happens when people leave? They turn into atheists/agnostics, and a very small percentage go to Ray Franz christianity.
Agree with jam though, stupid to bring it up. Old timers are going to stay - where else would they go? But teens have a smart phone where they can type in "Jehovahs witness apostates" on the drive home from the convention. We will see more of them here in the months ahead.
Good job GB, can't put that toothpaste back into the tube!
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Mary
How much do you wanna bet that Simon's going to get a notice telling him he has to take this thread down due to "copyright infringement"?
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Comatose
Glad we quick faded. It's rougher. But I won't be going to this now. We started a fade but two months in just quit. All hell broke loose, but its been so worth it. I'm gonna post a note I got in my door recently. You won't believe it.
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Moses Unedited
jam wrote:
This kind of talk is only hurting the borg it,s hateful. They are
doing more damage to themselves. By harping on Apostates, it
only draw attention to what the hell is all this fuss about Apostates.
Yes, very good point jam. I have often wondered how the writing department can be so counter-intuitive and so blatantly stupid as to constantly highlight and draw attention the very people they DO NOT want people to pay attention to.
I do agree that these kinds of fire and brimstone talks are just marginalizing Jehovah’s Witnesses more and more. What was going through the minds of the people who are casually interested in checking out the convention? (i.e. studies, return visits, people invited by a JW coworker). These talks scream out the word “cult”.
What is going through the minds of all of those JWs who are secretly beginning to sense that they might be in a cult? Does this dissuade them, or persuade them that their intuitions might be correct?
This was the kind of paranoid rhetoric that made me begin to ask myself: why would The Truth; the very pinnacle of supreme wisdom be so afraid of dissenting opinions? Why must it be shielded from examination and critique if it is so superior? To put it in perspective, would a group of astrophysicists be afraid of their fellow physicists talking to a “flat-earther” in the fear that the flat earther might mislead the physicist with his lies? Hardly!!
So, why are they so afraid of dissent? I think you can liken this to a robber who is in a shoot-out with police and runs out of bullets. Out of desperation, he throws his gun at them. This is how the Watchtower is reacting. They’re out of ideas, and are lashing out in all directions. The last days has now entered upon 100 years old with all of Russell’s, Rutherford’s, and Franz’s predictions completely failing. The Watchtower is trying to remain relevant in an era where more and more people are calling their bullshit.
At this point, their teachings merely serve as crowd control.
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JWB
SOME PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS
The 'good news' that JWs preach is concerning "Jehovah's Kingdom", whereas the 'good news' the first century Christians preached was "the kingdom of the Son of God's love", or Christ's Kingdom. Is the WTS not aware the Jesus said that all power and authority in heaven and on earth had been given HIM? This new kingdom was not dubbed "Jehovah's Kingdom" by the early Christian writers. The GB use the preaching of their particular brand of 'good news' as proof that one is a true Christian. So important is it to determine who is a true Christian, that this work of theirs, declaring "Jehovah's Kingdom", requires that they monitor each JW through the use of personal reporting. This of course was something quite foreign to the early Christians preaching the good news of Christ's Kingdom, who completed their task, according to the WTS itself, sometime in the latter part of the first century. Despite being the self-proclaimed steward of Christ, they don't seem to give him his rightful place as the one to whom all judgement has been committed. Its almost like a superstition that you have to mention Jehovah more than Jesus in case Jehovah doesn't get enough glory.
The WTS paints a picture of 'apostates' as being typically persons who act like 'kidnappers' to try to take away disciples after themselves from the ranks of JWs. However, this is just not typical of anti-WTS people nowadays. More likely is that they do not insinuate their ideas on members of their local congregation, but find a voice on the internet. Many have become wise in how they dispense their information about the WTS, knowing that the WTS will try to use scriptures to stereotype them. They say that 'apostates' are not happy simply to leave the organization and make their own disciples, but try to poach follows from among the congregation members. How many 'apostates' do you know of who actively try to influence JWs within the congregations? And how many are really trying to make disciples of others? Gone are the days when virtually the only 'apostate' influence there might be was pro-trinitarian literature handed to you at the doorstep of a staunchly religious householder. Apart from that there was the odd book or two like "Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave".
The truth of the matter is that most people coming out of the organization who wish to voice their concerns actually use forms of information distribution that do not target specific individuals. It seems to me that the WTS cannot really point to any significant in-house 'kidnapping'. So who is not leaving whom alone? The WTS is trying to create an air of ever-present danger that isn't really there. If JWs choose to go to 'apostate' sites and then start to question the WTS teachings, whose fault is that? There is no great danger from within, as it appears most of those having serious questions tend to keep their doubts to themselves, not wishing to attract the attention of the elders and then possibly facing a judicial committee. In my opinion, the GB have known for a long time they can no longer police the actions of JWs like they used to. So they have to use more and more words like 'kidnap', 'wicked', 'demons', 'poison', 'mentally diseased' as emotional leverage to scare individual JWs into continuing to live a life of fear of and isolation from 'the world'.
As far as rejecting "Jehovah's representatives" is concerned, that is a matter of opinion. We have only their word for it. The GB have already decided for Jesus that they are in fact the "faithful steward" who will be assigned by him great honour by being appointed over ALL his belongings in the future. Since they "presume to speak in the name [or by the authority] of Jehovah", they shouldn't mind if they are tested as to their authenticity. Unfortunately for them, not everyone blindly accepts their claim. Modesty is not something for which they are known. A case in point is the blantant use of "glorious ones" to describe themselves and those whom they appoint; never mind the fact that the scripture is probably referring to the angels! Oh, and being taught that God's name is Jehovah apparently is also grand testimony to their rightful place as Jesus' second-in-command. For without their help who would have known that? -
JWB
Mary, how can you copyright 'the truth'?
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Moses Unedited
Wow JWB, you brought up so many excellent points! One thing you wrote that really jumped out at me:
It seems to me that the WTS cannot really point to any significant in-house 'kidnapping'. So who is not leaving whom alone? The WTS is trying to create an air of ever-present danger that isn't really there. If JWs choose to go to 'apostate' sites and then start to question the WTS teachings, whose fault is that? There is no great danger from within, as it appears most of those having serious questions tend to keep their doubts to themselves, not wishing to attract the attention of the elders and then possibly facing a judicial committee. In my opinion, the GB have known for a long time they can no longer police the actions of JWs like they used to.
One thing that most Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t comprehend is that the visible “in your face” apostates who actively confront JWs (either door-to-door) or at conventions via picketing; comprise about 1% of all “apostate” ex-JWs. I personally know, or have met approximately 150-200 ex-JWs who don’t believe it anymore. Of that number, I know of only 3 people who either picket conventions, or try to engage JWs at the doors. The rest of them have actually moved on for the most part and are busy in other affairs, with little interest in trying to engage JWs in debates.
According to the Watchtower’s definition of apostate, I most definitely am one. I have had numerous opportunities to engage JWs who came to my door, or who approached me in street work. I simply smile, nod, and say “no thank you”. And so do most of my ex-JW friends. Yet the Watchtower would have their members believe that I am “mentally diseased” “wicked”, and “heard-hearted”. This is one of the shocks that JWs encounter when they leave the organization and attend their first apostate meet-up. The “monsters” are not really monsters at all, but are for the most part simply wounded humans.