Symposium: Beware of Apostates! - 'God's Word is Truth!' District Convention of Jehovah's Witnesses 2013 - not on JW.ORG

by mindnumbed 121 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  DATA-DOG

  " mr. convention speaker: "oh ho ho ho ho. HO HO HO HO!!!!! You don't need to know ANY of the details. Funny that you would even ASK for them. YOU aren't an apostate, are you? What's your name son, what congregation do you attend?"

  LOL! Yep!

  ArbolesdeArabia has a good point. The Sheeple are the enablers for the GB. If the sheeple would withdraw their support the WTBTS would crumble. The Sheeple won't do it bacause they are co-dependents. The GB give them a carrot to chase, a reason to live because they have no center in themselves. They give the GB power and position over them because they crave being dominated.

  Like a wife in an abusive relationship, the sheeple will never confront their abuser. They love the GB/husband too much because they would be nothing without him. Remember what they were before he came along and rescued them? They were living on the streets of Satan's world. Now they have a nice comfy trailer of spirituality to live in. It's not much, but all thier friends live in trailers too. And besides, it's only temporary, GB/hubby is really working on a new home, but it takes time. Don't press the issue unless you want a reminder of where you really stand in the relationship.

  If only poor sheeple/wifey wasn't commanded to stay home all day, avoiding the internet and the news, and commanded to never visit GB/hubbies place of employment. If only she would talk to the kindly ex-neighbor who turned their life around and got out of the trailer park. If only sheeple/wifey would get the courage to check up on GB/hubby when he says he is working late. If she could see him in bed with the Kings of the earth. He swears that the incident with Ms. UN was a total misunderstanding on Wifey's part. As soon as he knew what Ms.UN really wanted he left her home. Why was he there in the first place? Oh well, he came home to me, that is all that matters, besides who was it that got me off the streets?

  One more denigrating comment, one more thinly veiled threat, one more shove and maybe, just maybe she will follow him to MS. OSCE's house and peek through the window.
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  steve2

  Brothers, you are presumptious to warn me against investigating so-called apostate literature. You speak as if I do not possess my own ability to tell Truth from Lies.

  You ignore the uncomfortable fact that I and countless others saw beneath the thin veneer of "truth" by simply using our brains.

  We compared your dogmatic and ever-changing claims with the evidence before we even knew there were "apostate" writings.

  Long before you warned me to avoid investigating so-called "apostate" writings, I had already worked out your primary goal was to preserve your power and control over the congregations.

  Don't blame "apostates" for causing trouble. Take a good look in the mirror: Your own dubious claims, stunted policies and hypocritical practices are sufficient explanation for your mounting difficulties in stemming the exodus from the organization.

  Like ineffective parents whose harsh parenting style drives children from the home, your own arrogant and unloving behaviours well explain the sorry state of growing numbers of congregations.
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  problemaddict

  Were the people that were there at San Diego, or was it somewhere else. I guess it is somehow comforting to think that among the rest of the crowd, there are a few others that know better.
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  Oubliette

  Steve2: Like ineffective parents whose harsh parenting style drives children from the home, your own arrogant and unloving behaviours well explain the sorry state of growing numbers of congregations.

  True dat!

  I had my own doubts years before I visited any "apostate" websites. Then when I did, they only confirmed what I'd long suspected.

  It was good to know I wasn't alone.
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  label licker

  Thanks Mindnumbed and Designer Stubble. This was the information that we needed.
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  steve2

  This well-worn and arrogant notion of blaming "apostates" for corrupting true believers' innocent faith is a classic case of Shifting the Blame from the Watchtower Society's own damning actions and hypocritcal practices.

  I'd worked out the Watchtower was a hypocritical organization in my teens years before I even knew that others - such as Olin Moyle in the 1930s - had already worked this out several decades earlier.

  I did not need "apostates" to open my eyes to the corruption that was staring me right in the face. Yet, equally, there is no denying that countless others have been disturbed enough to investigate their own legitimate doubts and misgivings and have reached fairly similar conclusions: The Watchtower Society is just one of many closed-minded, cultish religious organizations who proudly prize fear-mongering, control and power over honesty, decency and integrity.
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  prologos

  like steve2 and many mentioned, perhaps most here had doubts, had de-coupled from WT without prodding. but

  WT is right: would there never have been any doubting, analizing, free minds, they would not have a problem. but

  the problem is not the free & analizing minds, no, it is they that got us out of swinging on liana in the trees (of the garden of eden), but

  it is the unrealistic religious stories ( comforting though they may be* to some, ) that trigger the turning away in laughter or amazement by the "apostates"

  *see wt 7/15/2013.
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  Moses Unedited

  Steve2 wrote:

  There are few things as threatening to the authority of the GB as people who are beginning to see through the veneer of hypocritical religiosity. Harp on, threaten and stir up fear all you like, servants of the GB, but your plastic spirituality and bogus claims to Truth melt under the scrutiny of clear-eyed thinking.

  Yes, I would say that the proverbial writing on the wall for these Watchtower leaders is in the form of the Google search engine. The organization is already filled with people who are burned out, discouraged, and harboring secret doubts. The GB’s continual cracking of the whip and chest beating over “apostates” is only going to give these people more of a nudge to begin doing their own investigating of their religion. It is hard to believe that the Watchtower writing department could be so profoundly stupid.

  I did not need "apostates" to open my eyes to the corruption that was staring me right in the face. Yet, equally, there is no denying that countless others have been disturbed enough to investigate their own legitimate doubts and misgivings and have reached fairly similar conclusions

  This was also the case with me as well Steve. I began my investigations of the Jehovah’s Witnesses beliefs at my local public library; and my research DID NOT include reading any ex-Witness materials! I wanted to do my own thinking without any biased opinions muddying up the waters. I came to the conclusion that the Watchtower was wrong on many fronts and made the decision to leave long before I ever heard of people like Randy Watters of M. James Penton! Surprisingly, when I finally did talk with other ex-Witnesses, they only shared the same experience that I had myself! This totally refutes the Watchtower’s claims that “apostates” deceive people into leaving the organization. This is a pure straw man argument they are using.

  HarryMac wrote:

  Well, in my case, years of bound volumes, meetings, studies, talks, etc... slipped away with the reading of 'In Search of Christian Freedom'.

  One book! Actually, I was mentally out before even being half done. That's powerful. GB kryptonite!

  Great point Harry. If the “Truth” is so supreme and from the mouth of God himself, how is it that it can be so easily deconstructed with a single book? For example, Most of Sir Isaac Newton’s published findings have stood the test of time - for hundreds of years! How could the teachings from Jehovah’s very mouth have to be discarded after only a few decades?

  What rational person would read the New Testament and interpret Jesus’ words to be applying to some publishing organization if they had not been indoctrinated to believe so? What intelligent person would read the Old Testament, and liken Moses and Aaron to a modern group of old men who run the Jehovah’s Witness religion if someone had not indoctrinated them to think so?
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  Scully

  I can't believe they are still beating on that "mentally diseased apostates" drum.

  Especially when their idea of appropriate literature for children includes this gem, from Lesson 10 in their publication "Learn from the Great Teacher":

  Jesus' Power Over The Demons

  DO YOU remember why one of God’s angels became Satan the Devil?— It was his selfish desire to be worshiped that caused him to turn against God. Did other angels become followers of Satan?— Yes, they did. The Bible calls them ‘Satan’s angels,’ or demons.—Revelation 12:9.

  Do these bad angels, or demons, believe in God?— ‘The demons believe God exists,’ the Bible says. (James 2:19) But now they are afraid. This is because they know that God will punish them for the bad things they have done. What have they done wrong?— The Bible says that those angels left their own proper home in heaven and came to earth to live as men. They did this because they wanted to have sex relations with the pretty women on earth. (Genesis 6:1, 2; Jude 6) What do you know about sex relations?—

  Sex relations are when a man and a woman become close in a very special way. Afterward, a baby can grow inside the mother. But for angels to have sex relations is wrong. God wants only a man and a woman who are married to each other to have sex relations. That way if a baby is born, the husband and wife can take care of it.

  When angels took human bodies and had sex with women on earth, their babies grew up to become giants. They were very mean, and they would hurt people. So God brought a great flood to destroy the giants and all the bad people. But he had Noah build an ark, or big boat, to save the few people who did what was right. The Great Teacher said that what happened at the Flood is important to remember.—Genesis 6:3, 4, 13, 14; Luke 17:26, 27.

  When the Flood came, do you know what happened to the bad angels?— They stopped using the human bodies they had made, and they went back to heaven. But they could no longer be God’s angels, so they became angels of Satan, or demons. And what happened to their children, the giants?—They died in the Flood. And so did all the other people who did not obey God.

  Since the time of the Flood, God has not let the demons become like humans anymore. But even though we cannot see them, the demons still try to get people to do very bad things. They are causing more trouble than ever before. This is because they have been thrown out of heaven down to the earth.

  Do you know why we cannot see the demons?—It is because they are invisible. But we can be sure that they are alive. The Bible says that Satan is ‘misleading people in all the world,’ and his demons are helping him.—Revelation 12:9, 12.

  Can the Devil and his demons mislead, or fool, us too?— Yes, they can if we are not careful. But we do not need to be afraid. The Great Teacher said: ‘The Devil has no hold on me.’ If we keep close to God, he will protect us from the Devil and his demons.—John 14:30.

  It is important that we know what bad things the demons will try to get us to do. So think about it. What bad things did the demons do when they came to earth?— Before the Flood, they had sex relations with women, something that was not right for angels to do. Today the demons like it when people do not obey God’s law about sex relations. Let me ask you, Who only should have sex relations?—You are right, only married people.

  Today some young boys and girls have sex relations, but this is wrong for them. The Bible talks about the male “genital organ,” or penis. (Leviticus 15:1-3) The female genital parts are called the vulva. Jehovah created these parts of the body for a special purpose that should be enjoyed only by married people. It makes the demons happy when people do things that are forbidden by Jehovah. For example, the demons like it when a boy and a girl play with each other’s penis or vulva. We don’t want to make the demons happy, do we?—

  There is something else that the demons like but Jehovah hates. Do you know what it is?— Violence. (Psalm 11:5) Violence is when people are mean and hurt others. Remember, that is what the giants, the sons of the demons, did.

  The demons also like to scare people. Sometimes they pretend to be people who have died. They may even imitate voices of those who have died. In this way the demons fool many into believing that dead people are alive and can talk with the living. Yes, the demons cause many people to believe in ghosts.

  So we must be on guard that Satan and his demons do not fool us. The Bible warns: ‘Satan tries to make himself look like a good angel, and his servants do the same.’ (2 Corinthians 11:14, 15) But, really, the demons are bad. Let’s see how they may try to get us to be like them.

  Where do people learn a lot about violence and improper sex and spirits and ghosts?— Isn’t it from watching certain television shows and movies, playing computer and video games, going on the Internet, and reading comic books? Does doing these things bring us closer to God or closer to the Devil and his demons? What do you think?—

  Who do you think wants us to listen to and watch bad things?— Yes, Satan and his demons do. So, what do you and I need to do?— We need to read, listen to, and watch things that are good for us and that will help us to serve Jehovah. Can you think of some of these good things that we can do?—

  If we do what is good, there is no reason to be afraid of the demons. Jesus is stronger than they are, and they are afraid of him. One day the demons cried out to Jesus: “Did you come to destroy us?” (Mark 1:24) Won’t we be happy when the time comes for Jesus to destroy Satan and his demons?— In the meantime, we can be sure that Jesus will protect us from the demons if we keep close to him and his heavenly Father.
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  Moses Unedited

  If we do what is good, there is no reason to be afraid of the demons. Jesus is stronger than they are, and they are afraid of him. One day the demons cried out to Jesus: “Did you come to destroy us?”

  A modern day rendition of this might read: "Google is stronger than they are, and they are afraid of it. One day the Governing Body cried out to the internet: "Did you come to discredit us?"