Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead (page 16)

Simon

When someone works hard to accomplish a monumental feat I want to know what compelled them to be who and what they are to that point in their life. What they share I may agree or disagree with. But I want to know regardless.

When someone works hard to accomplish a monumental feat the last thing I want to know is what someone else approved for them to say to me.

Isn't "God" telling you how you should pray to him the ultimate in someone "approving what you should say"?

In the same way, standing up and coming out with something that will quite possibly appear to the majority of your audience doesn't demonstrate free thinking or anything 'noble' ... it just reeks of a crass appeal to be popular.

Standing up and saying truths that are unpopular or doing something noble for the greater good - now that is something worthy of applause. Edward Snowdon deserves applause, not some Christian who just managed to memorise his god-approved prayer and recite it at an inappropriate time.

Marvin Shilmer

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“If he'd stood up and recited a "Soliloquy to the Spaghetti Monster" would that have been as 'awesome'?”

Simon,

If we want to know what compels a particular high achiever we have no choice but to listen to what they say compels them. We may not believe what they tell us. But that does not change what they say compels them, and it does not diminish the value of learning of their motivations.

When a person informs what compels them it’s opportunity to make a sociological and psychological appraisal. Failure to listen to what people say compels them is a monumental mistake.

In our society high achievers of all different varieties represent a likely influence on the future of human society. It’s better to learn sooner rather that later what a particular high achiever says motivates them.

Marvin Shilmer

AndDontCallMeShirley

If I attended a seminar to listen to Warren Buffet describe how he achieved his spectacular success in picking stocks, and he chose instead to recite the Lord's Prayer, I would not consider myself enlightened.

I wouldn't have learned one thing about what "makes him tick".

And I certainly would not feel compelled to agree with his tactic- regardless of his achievements.

new22day

Didn't read the thread - too long. Sure it's been said repeatedly - that speech was inappropriate. Blech. But even worse, in a ceremony made to honour academic achievement, it was unintelligent.

So arrogant to push one's personal beliefs on others and to be so daftly self righteous while doing so.

Simon

Marvin: I think you are confusing two different things. Whatever the motivation for someone doing something is very different from the accomplishment that results from the motivation.

What motivates someone to do something is personal to them and isn't necessarilly what comes out in any speech. Maybe they are motivated to make a lot of money. Does that value anyone? Nope.

How they carry out their accomplishment ... now that is more useful - how do you organize your study? what patterns can other students study? Yes - those are of greater value. Knowing that someone maybe did something because they believe some invisible creature wants them to or they have domineering parents who pressure them? Not so much.

What makes people do the things they do is of little concern to the 'thing' itself other than when the motivations can be directly and consistently linked to the 'thing' such as in the case of serial killers, terrorists and pedophiles. Yes, we should damn well learn what motivates them.

People who recite the lords prayer? Not so interesting IMO.

Marvin Shilmer

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“If I attended a seminar to listen to Warren Buffet describe how he achieved his spectacular success in picking stocks, and he chose instead to recite the Lord's Prayer, I would not consider myself enlightened.”

If you went to a Buffet seminar to learn what makes the man tick then you’d sit and listen to what he says of himself. Afterward you’d have what you went to hear, or at least you’d have Buffet’s comments on the subject. Then you can decide what if anything you can do with the information.

For sure I think it safe to say that if you went to a Warren Buffet seminar the last thing you’d want to hear is Buffet telling you something other than what Buffet wanted to tell you.

Marvin Shilmer

slimboyfat

Marvin, what's the point?

Simon

Also Marvin, I don't necessarily class the person with the highest grade as being the highest achiever. They may have all the opportunities in life. Whoopee, they did good from a good start.

The results of a student with mediocre grades who has struggled from a bad start may represent a far greater accomplishment and so may be far more interesting to listed to.

fakesmile

valedictorian = person best suited for institutional indoctrination, including religion. usually the best test taker who kisses the instructors ass. hardly ever the smartest or most creative.

edit. usually a follower not leader.

Simon

Marvin: Your argument seems to be frankly severely backward.

You are defending someone saying the lords prayer based on "they shouldn't say what the authorities approve" when the lord prayer is, to those who believe it, the ultimate reciting of an approved text by the ultimate authority.

Can't you see the hypocrisy or the flaw in your argument?

You say you want to hear what people 'personally think and believe' and then are happy to hear what they have been indoctrinated to think and believe as though that is of equal value.

It isn't ... by a long long way.

Other than as research into mental illness and causes for terrorism, religious people's beliefs are of little interest - I'd rather they left them at home where they belong.

THAT is the whole point.

Unless these Christians would be equally happy for people to turn up to their church and listen to talks on Evolution ... until that happens they should show equal respect in return.

Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead

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