by Crazyguy 261 Replies latest jw friends
Your understanding is crap, there I said it!
You are trying to equate evolution with magic. Magic is the creationist stuff.
There are some random changes. They are not just stray mutations that magically turn out better.
You are still listening to those that have interest in scoffing at evolution so you will buy their books, videos, go to their Young Earth Theme Park.
If you apply the same criticism to creation as to evolution, you will see that creation is crap.
Evolution is much more difficult to grasp that I ever thought. But so satisfying once you begin to understand.
I highly recommend this book as a good starting point. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Imagine if I said " aeronautic engineering is crap!" .... there is a degree to understand aeronautics, there is a degree to understand evolution. It is not something you can learn via the tv or from a magazine. Just because religion offers easy/lazy answers, that is not how the real world works.
It may sound stupid to compare aeronautics because we can plainly see flying machines in the sky..... BUT you can watch evolution happen today, literally in fron of your eyes.... we do all the time and we have to find ways to predict it because it happens so much and so quickly in some life forms (bacteria). If you havet seen proof for evolution.... that is your fault. Its like the man that calls aeroplanes a myth, he has never looked up!
I know what you are thinking " yeah but there is no REAL evidence for evolution!"
LOOk UP !!! there really, really, really is. Then there is the issue of the man looking up at aeroplanes and going "oh them!.....no they are not aeroplanes!" If you do look ath the evidence, when you find yourself saying it, note that you have no idea what evolution even is...
Evident by your threads....
So to start with, please define for us YOUR definition of evolution, what it is, how it works....... go on....
With regard to your opening post about computer code...
You say the code deteriorates...... and ? so ? You have had this said to you by someone that doesnt know science and you pretend there is some significance to this...... what you dont realise is that this also happens in evolution. In fact there is a computer program that was designed to mimick DNA.
Mutation in DNA does not mean ..new, extra DNA. It refers to a mistake in the code. Sometimes that may indeed be adding lots of new code (neucleotide repeats) , sometimes it is seen as a code missing (deletion), some times the volume of code is unchanged but re-arranged and now useless (nonsense mutation), sometims it is a code re-arrange that now does something different (missense mutation). Where the mutation happens, when, how and why determined what type it is. i,e. is some lost, gained, muddled up or made unreadable.
This mistake now presents as a biological change.... to even ask if this change is positive or negative, i.e. beneficial or not, shows a lack of understanding once more. Good or bad is defined by the enviroment, not our opinio0n of what is good or bad NOW. For example, imagine if we mutated eyes that could see infra red..... if the planet had a huge volcano that blocked out most planetary light for 400 years, those genes would previal...because you would see better than the people without the mutation...you would eat better, survive better and by nature procreate more... I know in your mind, you are imagining one human with red eyes, wandering around having sex with lots of women that can see.... that is not how it works... but i cant be bothered dancing around the huge science that is evolution, my point is.... whether the gene is good or bad is decided by the enviroment at the time, the best biology, for the enviroment.
You are mising basic information from your knowledge. Whatever mutation takes place IS random, it is neither good or bad. The outcome of that mutatuion, whether it be a hairy body, sickle cell anaemia, a horn on the forehead, extra fingers, a hair on your shoulder, a freckle. a hormone releasing tumor..... is neither good nor bad. It is only beneficial or not depending on the enviroment. Survival of the fittest, to its enviroment is how nature then selescts which of those randon gene mutations survives. For exaple, lets say you lose some code to switch of hair growth all over the body. So now you are a hairy bloke, head to toe. All of a sudden, the climate spirals into an ice age..... guess whos's genes will survive in your home town?
Everything in evolution is a lot slower, like millions of years slower, with enviroments and genes being slected on a very slow basis, totally invisible for the most part to onlookers watching the changes. But all of the mechanisms, all of the science is already here...
WE WATCH THIS PROCESS TAKE PLACE IN MANY SHORT LIFE ANIMALS..... there is no debate.If you dont understand why people believe it, its because you dont know enough. It is like denying aeroplane flight, then when someone says... you must noit have seen any aeroplanes .... you agree....
Well go to an airport!!!! i.e. go to a library and get some books, go to a museum and see the billions of fossils displaying evolution.
Or stay ignorant. Your choice.... your life.
man and apes share about 99% DNA. how come?..and whenever evolution is examined or experiments are conducted one element cannot be replicated in any laboratory .time. ....
my mind is open to ideas.
Westie....
Here is a suggestion for your open mind........ READ A TEXTBOOK ON EVOLUTION.
go on amazon and buy "the greatest show on earth" by Dawkins or if you want the flat cold science get "Biology" by campbell and reece, the chapters on genetics and evolution are excellent.
If you are not really interested, just here for the chat.... tell us what you believe evolution is.... I guarantee you were lied to about what evolution ACTUALLY is...
evolution.. is crap
a creator who creates a reptile that poisins it's prey and then slowly waits for days for it to die.. is crap
do i care...not a flying fig
there..i said it
There are many different theories on evolution aren't there? I mean, it's not just one clearly stated theory - scientists have differing opinions about all things pertaining to evolution. Likewise, there are many many differing views on Christianity, based on opinion.
Evolution challenges 'fundamental' Christianity - those who believe that what was written in the Bible was literally stated fact, end of the story. I'm not a fundy... I believe the Bible was written (a lot) in allegory - it wasn't written by scientific minds for sure. So one can't challenge me by pitting evolution against fundamentalism. It doesn't have to be a fight from opposite corners. I do believe in evolution - and I'm a believer in Christ. I think the 2 lines of thought are completely compatible - in my mind anyway, lol.
I can't be the only one who thinks you don't have to believe one OR the other...?
No one knows for a certainty HOW it all happened - we have a fossil record and the opinions of those who've studied them - and I find some of their conclusions to be very compelling. So I think there is an absolute truth somewhere in the middle. But supporting evolution doesn't automatically mean one has to ditch the Bible, or even blast it. And supporting the Bible doesn't automatically mean one has to confront evolution as if it's satanic heresy. I'm pretty sure we're all wrong on some levels - but I've successfully reconciled the 2 in my own mind. Since there's so much I don't and can't know about either subject I'm not ashamed to say "I just don't know"! I won't spend a lot of time trying to coerce others into my way of thinking, but hey - it works for me and I'm satisfied. I hope you all can find some kind of balance, too. Balance is GOOD.
'In the 1950 encyclicalHumani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces. [ 1 ] Today, the Church supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation: [ 2 ]
[Theistic evolutionism] is the official position of the Catholic church. In 1996, Pope John Paul VI reiterated the Catholic TE position, according to which God created, evolution occurred, human beings may indeed have been descended from more primitive forms, and the Hand of God was required for the production of the human soul" [ 3 ] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution S
To Understand the logic behind this thread all you need to do is read the user name of the person who started it.
Crazy,
Great post!
Two situations happening that are fascinating to watch:
When will JWs in total finally get it?
When will the Dawkin's crowd in total finally get it?
Think about the x-dubs that experience this double whammy!
