What I've been wanting to say about doubt and faith

by jgnat 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jgnat

  DT, I'll explain how her talk resonates with me, and her definition of faith, because my own reflections have led me to a state of constant doubt.

  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. - Hebrews 11:1

  I said the following a couple days ago, which pretty well sums up what I've been going through the last few years:

  "A sincere searcher after truth need never adjust to another's reality or sit on his laurels. There is enjoyment in a lifetime of seeking, learning, asking questions, and never resting in the pursuit."

  In to the rubbish bin has gone the idea of an invoilate bible, an infallible God. The historical Jesus, much like Russell, prophecied persecution and an immenent end, which did not happen; a failed prophet. The historical Jesus is far removed from the icon we have erected and in truth, what "Christianity" is has evolved through the centuries. But this repurposing is not all a bad thing. We want a pluralistic, all-loving God who demands humility, honor, goodness, and kindness.

  I fiercely want the best of human nature to prevail, a future of peace and goodwill. I will fight for this in spite of all evidence to the contrary. This is reverence for life, this is the fight against entropy and death. Complexity and life endures against all odds.

  The robin couple in my backyard persist in their parenting no matter how many chicks they lose.
• 

  Phizzy

  "I fiercely want the best of human nature to prevail, a future of peace and goodwill. I will fight for this in spite of all evidence to the contrary. "

  This is the position taken by Humanists, it is not necessary to have a faith in a "Jesus" or any kind of religious faith to have this as a way of life/world-view.

  It is though, a "faith" position, the best of human nature is often at present overtaken by Evil in many parts of the world, may this end soon !
• 

  jgnat

  How about human-hearted, as Confucious would say? I would prefer that over humanist, which presumes a package set of ideals.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  While I agree with the video, I know that some believers will jump on any statement I make of "faith" in something other than God.

  I feel that I am actually very spiritual, in that I am in touch with the more important aspects of life- beyond the secular.

  Doubt led me to certainty of many things I used to take the opposite view of in faith. So I can see where believers are afraid of allowing doubt in. It tends to do to them just what learning TTATT has done for many.
• 

  DT

  I feel that she makes some of the same mistakes as the people that she criticises.

  For example, some conservative Muslims will claim that more liberal Muslims aren't "true" Muslims. People of faith often claim that others with a different type of faith don't have "true" faith. It's often an attempt to hijack the meanings of words to advance their own view. It makes any meaningful discussion difficult. It is often easier to subvert the meanings of words used in a debate than to use rational arguments.

  She does the same thing by making up her own definition of faith and then claiming that others who actually have very strong faith don't have "true" faith and are infidels.

  I think it's needlessly offensive and just silly. It appear to me that she is working under the assumption that faith is inherently good, so anybody who has a type of faith that she feels is bad doesn't have "true" faith.

  It's much more practical to realize that faith, as it's commonly defined and understood, can be either good or bad depending on the situation. Some of the broader definitions of faith can include the possibility of doubt. In any case, I would generally regard it is a positive thing for faith to be tempered by doubt. However, to claim that doubt is essential for faith just doesn't make sense. It perpetuates the dangerous myth that faith is inherently good while making future dialog on the subject more difficult.

  I believe in the value of doubt. It is often a great virtue. I just think her defense of doubt is flawed.
• 

  jgnat

  Someone can make a decision never to check their foundation, in faith that it holds up, but then they run the risk of their entire belief system collapsing at any moment.

  
• 

  new hope and happiness

  Jgnat ...why does a belief system never collapse?

  ---

  Maybe if its a belief system that gives identity? or maybe if its a belief system of community? or maybe if its a belief system of family? A belief system can be some fragile bridge...but the stength of that bridge is the support system when the oceon gets rough ( checking the foundation of that bridge can be emotionally tough)

  . Why?

  Because People are all so irational. And thats whyi forgive those that left me to drown when i left THEIR believe system. They had nothingto forgive except being irational ....
• 

  jgnat

  I think belief systems do fail people. They may for instance, pray in perfect faith and yet not see fulfillment. To maintain their beliefs, they must find a reason (the prayer wasn't perfect, they're not perfect, it was not God's time).

  Cognitive dissonance is an example of discomfort when an internal belief system does not match reality. The person has the choice to re-examine the beliefs or blame some external force. Take for example, grieving Witness parents shunning their adult children. They may come to blame their adult children for the loss, not able to admit that it was their severe beliefs that drove their children away.

  The strain of bolstering a failing belief system often expresses itself in physical symptoms such as an array of autoimmune diseases, anxiety, depression, or PTSD. Often these symptoms dissipate once the dissonance is resolved.

  As we have seen here, belief systems do collapse when the weight of contradictions becomes too much. The whole system collapses like a deck of cards and the person experiences an "awakening", questioning everything and often compelled to share their discovery. After all, this is a new truth!
• 

  Band on the Run

  I enjoyed it. Obama appealed to me when he declared tha t right wing fundies should not define Christianity. How dare anyone declare that they have exclusive rights to faith.I doubt yet I have faith.
• 

  jeanniebeanzz

  "grieving Witness parents shunning their adult children. They may come to blame their adult children for the loss, not able to admit that it was their severe beliefs that drove their children away."

  So very true...

  (hi, jgnat)