I'm not worried about my standing with Christ. Do you believe that those who reject Christ could not stand amongst those who have accepted Christ?
What I've been wanting to say about doubt and faith
by jgnat 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jgnat
I'll explain this picture later.
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tec
Do you believe that those who reject Christ could not stand amongst those who have accepted Christ?
No, I do not.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean though. Stand amongst them how? Like as in the afterlife? Or on moral grounds?
There is Christ.
There is His Body - those who have union with him... (not everyone who claims union actually has union; those who will say, "Lord Lord... did we not prophecy in your name and perform miracles in your name", and He will say, "Away from me you evildoers, I never knew you)... who rule for a thousand years with Him upon his return. (the first resurrection)
There are the sheep separated from the goats at the time Christ establishes his kingdom... that do not have union with Christ (are not his brothers and sisters), but are known BY him for what they do, and so are also invited into the kingdom. The subjects of the kingdom. These ones were not christians.
Then there are the 'goats' - those not permitted into the kingdom, those who are not known by Christ because of their deeds and words. But who are outside the kingdom, called the outer darkness, weeping and gnashing teeth (anger, jealousy, resentment), during the thousand years. Who after the thousand years come against those within the kingdom, to destroy/make war upon them... but fire comes down from heaven and devours them, protecting those within (the brothers of christ AND the sheep) from that attack.
Then the second resurrection... where the dead are called before judgment... and everyone whose name is in the lamb's book of life enters the kingdom (remember that all those who belong to christ... those who had died and those who are alive... ALL are resurrected and gathered to him in the first resurrection... so these ones are the sheep as above who had died before Christ returned)
Once again, men are judged however by their own deeds and words, as written in their individual books. So some are invited into the kingdom... and some are judged, and cast into the lake of fire (which is not hell, but the second death)
And of course, God may have mercy upon whomever He wishes.
Christ is the one who does the separating and knows who is who. Not me. Not any man. Me, I am just supposed to worry about what I am supposed to do.
Peace,
tammy
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jgnat
"I'm not sure how they could be among those who are his brothers."
Explain this please.
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MrFreeze
That's a great video. Really makes you think. My favorite bit is from 9 minutes on... talking about how fundamentalists have taken over Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
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tec
I'm not sure how they could be among those who are his brothers."
Explain this please.
I am not sure how anyone who rejects Christ could have union with him at the same time... and be among his brothers (those who are in union with him). But that is not my call to make, and Christ obviously sees more into the heart of a man than I can, to know that man or not.
Bottom line - I don't make judgment calls on other people, because it is not my call.
Peace,
tammy
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jgnat
I believe Jewish fundamentalists wrapped up the story of Solomon, that his "foreign" wives were his downfall. What if they weren't? What if Solomon was heading to a pluralistic view not shared with the conserative element in his country?
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jgnat
I don't know how to explain this any more plainly without having you erupt in to another flood of words, tec/tammy.
Your vision is highly personal yet you are compelled to be a witness to your internal vision over and over. There is a dread consequence to pay for those who do not share your vision, though you will not take responsibility for it.
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Hummingbird001
I am sorry, but I also see so much contradiction in your comments, tec/tammy.
You said, you don't see how certain ones can be amongst Christ's brothers. Then you say, "I don't make judgment calls on other people."
You say you don't speak for Christ, but then you say you "share" what he tells you. I do not understand the difference. Could it be that when you speak Jesus' words to like-minded people, who also have your same views - that is "sharing"? But when you speak Jesus' words to a discussion board of people who do not have your same views, that would be speaking for Christ, is it not?
Also there is the matter of the authority of the one you choose to speak for. If I tell you that my friend Hillary doesn't like mushrooms on her pizza, I am speaking for her, but it is a trivial matter. When you clam that Jesus told you something, that is entirely a different matter. Because of the authority behind his name, you are not sharing - you are speaking for him.
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tec
I don't know what you're seeing jgnat. There is no dread consequence for those who do not share my vision.
There may not be life for those who live contrary to love, who harm and hurt others instead, because of what is IN them.
But for those who do live that way and in accordance to love... regardless of whether they share my vision or not... there is the promise and invitation of the Kingdom, and life.
You said, you don't see how certain ones can be amongst Christ's brothers. Then you say, "I don't make judgment calls on other people."
If I say "I don't see how", then I am giving my own personal opinion/thoughts, not knowing for sure one way or the other. If I say, this is what Christ has taught me... then I am sharing what He has specifically taught me.
He has taught me NOT to judge others. I don't understand how someone who rejects Him can be in union with Him... BUT... that is not my call to make. I leave that to Him, and worry more about what I am supposed to be doing.
IF I say, this is the word of my Lord to you... then I am sharing with others something that He has told me to say to others, or a question that He has told me to ask others.
Peace,
tammy
