Jeffro: i apologize if i offended, i was just trying to show that iran is a different world from our own. They have their own ideas of whats right and wrong. Even today muslims who claim to be refugees still practice oppression upon women and im not talking just about the burkha. They claim to be running away from evil in iran but they still basically imprison their women even if the walls and bars only exist in the fear of their women who know the threat of what might happen if they step out.
Rudds new asylum seeker policy
by barry 110 Replies latest jw friends
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Jeffro
mP:
i was just trying to show that iran is a different world from our own.
Um... must... resist... obvious... point...
They claim to be running away from evil in iran but they still basically imprison their women even if the walls and bars only exist in the fear of their women who know the threat of what might happen if they step out.
Domestic violence and oppression of women in Australia is not restricted to Iranians. Or Muslims. Or immigrants. But it still doesn't make Australia Iran, where the problem is more broadly societal than domestic.
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mP
Jeffro
Domestic violence and oppression of women in Australia is not restricted to Iranians. Or Muslims. Or immigrants.
mP:
Come on mate, do you really think anybody is stupid enuff to believe that only iranians or any other social group are the only ones which are violent against women ?
IM not talking about domestic violence, im talking about the prison they impose on women. Its understood in many of these communities that women dont have the same freedoms. Many dont chain their women, they understand the unwritten rules and consequences.
Jeffro
But it still doesn't make Australia Iran, where the problem is more broadly societal than domestic.
mP:
They dont consider how they treat women violent, they consider it gods will and perfectly fine. if its not a crime in that country or society then its for them perfectly acceptable. Thats how all socieites operate. Killing is not a crime if the gov says its fine. Thats how soldiers can shoot etc in war and not be murders.
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Jeffro
mP:
They dont consider how they treat women violent, they consider it gods will and perfectly fine
Every society has fundamentalists and moderates. It must be nice for you that you've got them all nicely stitched up as "they".
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barry
1. Who is a refugee?
According to the United Nations Convention and Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees (also called the Refugee Convention), a refugee is someone who is outside their own country and cannot return due to a well-founded fear of persecution because of their:
- race
- religion
- nationality
- membership of a particular social group or
- political opinion1
A person becomes a refugee under international law once she or he crosses an international border and is assessed as meeting the definition of a refugee, either by a national government or an international agency such as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home
In popular use, the term refugee is often interpreted more broadly than its legal definition to include all people who flee their homes seeking refuge from harm. There are many circumstances which could force someone to flee to safety, including war or civil strife, domestic violence, poverty and natural or man-made disasters. However, the Refugee Convention only recognises people as refugees if they are displaced from their home country because of persecution on the basis of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion.
Two important points to note about this definition are:
- a person has to be outside their country of nationality or usual residence when making a refugee application; and
- the fear of persecution has to be well founded - that is, the person fleeing must have experienced the persecution or be likely to experience it if he or she returns.
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Jeffro
mP:
IM not talking about domestic violence, im talking about the prison they impose on women.
Notice that I actually said:
Domestic violence and oppression of women
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barry
From the above post it can be seen that crossing the sea in a leaky boat doesn't a refugee make. In fact we have been using the more broad interpretation such as war civil strife, domestic violence, poverty and natural or man made disasters.
An economic refugee is certainly excluded from the above definition.
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Jeffro
From the above post it can be seen that crossing the sea in a leaky boat doesn't a refugee make.
So? Nor does it preclude it.
Historically, about 90% of such people have been found to be genuine refugees.
An economic refugee is certainly excluded from the above definition.
It's an ambiguous term. But a person saving money for the purpose of such a trip neither confirms nor denies their other circumstances.
Your argument is a non sequitur.
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mP
Jeffro
Domestic violence and oppression of women
mP:
You completely missed my point. Many of those people dont consider their treatment of women as oppressive. Many willingly impose this system on their own mothers, sisters and daughters because they believe its right. There are also many women (never all, im sure there are many who dont appreciate it) who participate in this vile practice. YOu cant use this as a measure of whether they are victims if they tehmselves dont consider it wrong or violence.
I wont waste any more time, i dont condone etc vioelcne against anybody. Im just stating the basic truths as i see it.
The smae is true of other vile acts that are a part of theier scoeity. They dont see what we consider tortune of animals as anything wrong. That is of course a measure i personally use to judge cultures, religions & nations. If they are cruel to animals then you can bet they are just as bad to others in the community.
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Jeffro
mP:
The smae is true of other vile acts that are a part of theier scoeity. They dont see what we consider tortune of animals as anything wrong. That is of course a measure i personally use to judge cultures, religions & nations. If they are cruel to animals then you can bet they are just as bad to others in the community.
So, what you're saying basically, is their society is terrible, therefore they couldn't possibly be refugees.