Protecting pedophiles while protecting children

by stillin 155 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  jhine

  Hello, I have been reading the last posts and thinking hard . I do not assume that all JWs are paedos , never been guilty of that . Of course any institution religious or otherwise that gives access to children , scouts , coaching football teams heck I suppose even teaching will attract people with paedo tendencies . It seems that the trouble with some , including the Watchtower is that they do not do enough, or much at all to combat the problem .

  DogGone I have no reason to doubt the statistics you give about known re - offending , but some questions come to mind . How do we know that people have not re-offended ? they are hardly likely to confess .

  The other thing that comes to mind is child pornography . We had the case recently with one of the killers of Jaime Bulger who had been found downloading child porn . So can we know how many convicted paedophiles

  find a way to look at child porn to satify themselves without them actually touching a child ? Of course though the market for child porn still means that children are being harmed and exploited .

  I suppose that I am questioning how sure can we (society ) be that people have been cured . ? When someone has an addiction , and I mean that in the sense of an overriding need to have something in your life that you feel gives you pleasure to the point where you do not care about it's effect on others , they will lie and deceive . I have a friend who is an alcoholic (not in any way comparing the two things , just a principal ) and I have been shocked at the lengths that he will go to in order to get his drink . He has been manipulative and deceitful to an extent that has shocked me , perhaps I have been naive up to now., but it has made me think about or question just how much we can trust someone with an agenda like that .He has looked me straight in the eye and sworn that he has not had a drink when he clearly has , but seems to have a talent now for self deception ,almost believing his own lies .

  I have been really shaken at the way in which some thing so destructive can become so all consuming and this makes me question the extent to which we can trust paedophiles and promises of not re-offending .

  As a Christian I do believe in second chances and forgiveness , BUT that forgiveness needs to be earnestly sought and repentance genuine , in most instances it is fine to give someone a chance to show that they are sincere and really turning away from their old life , which with most people can be a process . I do realise though that in the case of someone who MAY molest a child again the welfare of children must come first and struggle with the idea of just saying to someone "o.k. you have said that you are sorry and will not do this again all is FORGOTTON "

  sorry for the rambling post , just putting thoughts down maybe to help myself , any comments welcome .
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  S EIGHT

  Interesting comment jhine in regard to child porn. An elder in our congregation who was convicted for child sex offences was found to have thrown his laptop away just as it came to light that he'd been up to no good.

  It's just an opinion but in my view it smacks of suspicion.

  Hence the need for congregations to report all instances of child abuse whether there are two witnesses or not as the authorities have the resources to check things like internet history which hepls to build a profile of the alleged offender.

  S8
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  stillin

  Lost; please don't be offended. Please read the post again, more carefully.

  That, in a nutshell, characterizes a lot of the responses that have been offered in this thread; reflex-driven, emotional reactions to perceived notions. A poster can't make the statement that it appears that the WTS is seemingly adapting their stance on an issue to accommodate "caeser's" law as well as their interpretation of God' law without innuendos, accusations and anger.

  Not that I've never been guilty of saying something ignorant, but some of us more than others need to pay better attention before spouting off!

  but, after disregarding some of the less thought-out posts, there have been some really thought-provoking contributions, and for those, I am appreciative.
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  joe134cd

  They have certainly been bitten. But what I can't help but think is if someone hadn't stood up to them, and challenged them through the media and court system, if things would of been so quick to change.. Unless you can successfully sue them they aren't going to help you, infact they probably aren't even going to apologise. Infact most of the witnesses I have spoken to about it ain't even got the slightest idea of what's going on. I even have to tread lightly in how and who I mention this to for fear of getting a JC over it. Just think of the people who got bull dozed (opps sorry disfellowshiped) e.g Barbra Anderson who tried to get them to change. What a lovingl open and transparent organization we belong to. But the ultimate question above all else is. "If this organization was backed by God, why would of he allowed this to happen". Just dosnt add up
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  stillin

  True that, Joe!
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  DogGone

  Jhine,

  Excellent, well thought out post. (When I had despaired that a rational discussion could be had)

  The stats don't indicate someone is "cured". I've been very careful not to use that sort of language. In those numbers we can be sure there are those who have reoffended and have gotten away with it. However, the numbers are still significant. They would have to "get away with it" for up to 25 years, having a criminal record, possibly on a public notice lists, having friends and family aware of their past, having police in the area aware of their past, having social services aware of their past. Their time with the judicial system would have made them master criminals, better than all other criminals, even while, strangely enough, they are twice as likely to be caught for a non-sexual offence. It would also be odd that as our treatments, monitoring, and reporting laws have all strengthened they have become increasingly better at hiding their re-offense.

  But, your point is valid. We don't know. That is why we should report.

  If all sexual offenders, or even the vast majority, recidivate after they have been caught, incarcerated, given treatment, released on parole, provided supplemental counselling services, added to registries, told where they can live (in some states)... then reporting doesn't stop re-offense, it just delays it for a while.

  Do you see the failure of logic here? "All offenders will reoffend, so we have to report... for the children". OK, so if we don't report they are 100% going to reoffend. If we do report they are going to jail for a few years and then are 100% going to reoffend. Nonsense.

  The fact is, if we don't report we don't know what the re-offense rate it. However, I'm willing to wager everything I have and everything I am that it is MUCH higher than the rate for those that do get reported, convicted, etc. Unless you believe that all but 9-24% of offenders stop on their own you will find that you might just agree with me.

  The low recidivism rate is a REASON to report rather than handle it in house (IMHO). It is also a reason not to go vigilante on every name on those registries. Now, it is my opinion that exposing the crime helped the offender and helped the victim. Therefore, I believe we need much less secrecy around this. Misguided opinions bandied about like fact that all offenders will reoffend work against that agenda. The StopItNow.org campaign has caused scores of offenders to turn themselves in despite the fact there was no offer of amnesty. Offenders are not all monsters. Certainly the one who struck my family isn't.
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  jhine

  DogGone , must confess to finding it difficult to stay rational about what is to most people an emotional subject . At times I have swayed towards the idea that "lost " proposed !( as you said "LOst" as mothers and grandmothers it is our natural reaction ). It is soo difficult to understand what makes someone commit such an act and to try to understand that mindset seems to be being disloyal to the victims . It is hard to not feel that in someway you are condoning the wrongdoing if you do not have any other reaction than hatred towards the wrongdoer .

  DogGone you seem to have had personal experience and also seem to have some peace about it . You say that the person who struck your family wasn't a monster . I think from your other comments that the matter was reported and dealt with by the authorities , did that help all involved ? especially the victim . That seems to me to be one !! of the flaws in the JW stance that the victim doesn't get justice . Not as a matter of revenge but to show that those around take seriously what happened to them , believe them and care about their welfare .

  2as mothers and grandmothers it is a natural reaction ) It is VERY difficult to start to understand what makes someone commit such an act , and to give any time to trying to do so seems to be being disloyal to the victims . That is a problem , to forgive some one for an offence commited against yourself is easier than to forgive an offence commited against someone else especially a child , like I said you feel that you are condoning the wrong doing and being disloyal ,and in all honesty I struggle with that .
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  jhine

  Sorry about the last post , technical difficulties with my computor . I suffer from Id 10 T syndrome .
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  DogGone

  Jhine, My apologies on the late reply. My wife and I went on a nice little vacation and I checked out from JWN for a while. Not sure if you are still following this thread, but you asked....

  You asked if the matter involving my family was reported. It was. All of this is about 20 years ago now, but the matter was reported. It all happened outside of the JW religion as my family is not involved in any way. At the time, I was at the beginning of my involvement. Reporting worked out well for a few reasons. The victims, my little brother and sister, were provided counseling. They were so very young. My sister was a toddler and my brother was maybe 4 or 5. The reaction from my step mother was strong - she was hurt beyond hurt. She felt betrayed and probably shamed that the abuse went on so long. On the positive side, she has become a regular volunteer with victim's services directly helping in that community. This really is a blip in our family history. My brother and sister are doing very well. My little sis is in university and my little brother has a great job and a house. Pretty darn good for a guy in his early twenties.

  The abuser, well the reporting worked out well for her. She was a teenager who was herself abused, by her uncle, if I recall correctly. The family covered it up and she went on to do what she did as our close family friend and babysitter. I don't believe charges were ever pressed by the Crown due to her age and circumstance. But, she did receive help, perhaps under a youth program; I don't know, exactly. I've read that the reason many of the most intransigent abusers focus on the same gender and age as when they were victimized is they are mentally locked into what happened to them. Maybe this is why the recidivism stats for same-sex abusers are so much higher.

  Sometimes my family points her out in the town when I visit. I don't even remember what she looks like. I don't hate her, unlike many in my family. I feel she is another victim in this whole affair. My family would jump down my throat if they heard my thoughts on it, though. What I have always had is pity. But then, I have my own worldview and my own story.

  DogGone
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  jhine

  DogGone , glad that you had a good vacation . We are going on holiday in a couple of weeks so I will be missing for a while then . I have been checking the thread regularly to find a reply so thank you for coming back to me . From what you said I see why you had previously stated that not all offenderss are monsters . It is the case though that it is hard to get to grips withh someone who has been abused abused abusing someone else , I suppose that in my mind certainly it is difficult to understand why someone who understsnds what abuse feels like would then inflict that on someone else . However I must aknowledge that having never been abused I cannot know how that screws with the mind .

  Perhaps your family feel the way I described in my last post that to forgive or even try to understand an abuser is a betrayal of the abused . Such a difficult subject to get your head round .