Public awareness? Do you really think anyone but the tabloids, anti-sect people and fringies care what Jehovah's Witnesses do? Only people with a similar purpose will care. This is an oh hum issue for most outsiders. Isn't the best "cure" to move on? Or to stay marginally connected. I don't fault either decision.
Article: It's Time to Outlaw Extreme Shunning in Modern Society
by AndersonsInfo 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Vidiot
Band, I appreciate what you said about my thoughts on this, but dissing Barb and calling her arrogant and comparing her to Stalin is not cool, especially since she was just forwarding a piece that someone else wrote.
Barb has worked tirelessly for the XJW community for 20 years, and she knows that the criminalization of shunning isn't gonna happen.
She didn't deserve that.
-
Vidiot
Old Goat - "Do you really think anyone but the tabloids, anti-sect people and fringies care what Jehovah's Witnesses do?"
Yes.
Families who've had their children vicitimized by the WTS's pedophilia policies, for one. People who've lost family or friends to shun-related suicide or transfusion-related death, for another.
You're right; the WTS is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. However, just about everyone in the developed world knows someone or is related to someone who is a JW.
So it's not just tabloids, anti-sect people, or fringies.
Not to mention that as the institutionalized sexual abuse of young people within all authoritarian organizations is brought to the general public's awareness more and more, its collective dismay cannot help but grow.
-
5go
Freedom of religion is not absolute if it can be proved harmful to an indiviual and or society (which this can) than it can be banned so say the supreme court. This is the reason cannibal religions can't take root here in the west, or why Mormons can't practice polygamy.
-
Band on the Run
No, I am now even more outraged. Some members here agree with me. I am not drunk. Don't ever mistake hurry for ignorance. You think you have anonymity here, you do not. There are databases I can access that even Simon or the most committed conspiracy wacko here knows nothing about it. They will never, ever be able to prove they exist. I only know because I had to do it. Snowden should have revealed about these databases!
Barbara may appear to be winning. She is screwing things up and doing it in on a massive basis. My period of silence has end. It has nothing to do with Barbara personally. I would never have ever voiced my concerns in thirty years here. The recent fiasco set every exWitness cause back about 6,000 years. It was not necessary. Please everyone whose name was forced, listen. There is NO EXCUSE for what happened. If I did not have my personal experiences, I would worship what Barbara does. She is older. It would work on the WT of my years. NOT NOW.
Stop just interacting with each other and start meeting and greeting normal people at the grocery store, library. When you post only over the top outrageous items, no one will believe you even if have perfect proof one egregious example. This is an ignorant country but not one with the lowest IQ in the world. Americans despise anyone whose bigotry is so huge. No, you are no longer apostates but BIGOTS. You may think you advocate Freedom. Well, perahps one time long ago you advanced freedom. Normal people do not act the way I see people here act. When you outraged about something, and I often am, that is the very second to gain control of your emotions. I hate large the way you hate large. Believe me, I bide my time. I seek out people and start small conversations. Slowly but slowly, I gain their confidence. Once they respect me, I never act out and describe things graphically and dramatically the way I do. Doors will shut. What is a two minute massive temper tantrum if I set back my interests a million years?
No, almost everything here sets you back forever. Yet some members know exactly the right thing to do without massive education! You control yourself. Do you think actors who must appear angry are angry in real life? No, why have people laugh at you for a minute. Barbara's intention is wonderful. I salute it. She is right. Someone can have the best idea in the world and be so clueless that they end up doing the very opposite of what they want.
You may know some JW ding alings in the Writing Department. I know the mindsets of not only JW lawyers but the lawyers, financial planners, etc. that the WT must hire. Every time you get dramatic about nothing at all, the bell rings and alerts the entire world that you are worse than the WT. Life requires humor. Does anyone remember Abbie Hoffman or Jerry Rubin? Everyone can lead at some time. Anthony Weiner is the perfect example for now. If he had just resigned and waited two years, he coudl have been mayor and governor of New York. He is not that impressive in concrete terms. He is a great symbol, though. New Yorkers loved him. No one loves underdogs who screw up as much as New Yorkers. He did not sit in the dog house for too long. Now people who never give a .......about anything sexual will never vote for him. You know a lot. Others here know way more than you could know in a millions life times.
I don't know how I can be more candid. Fundamentally, just as I enjoying a personal peak, I see that the WT apostate community is not worth a second thought. No one can cure all ignorance. My peers marvel at how long I will sit and try to explain a basic to nice people. They scream, "Band, you could have joined at this very delightful thing. Of all people, you would have loved it the most. Stop trying to help people who were the way you were centuries ago. I am losing respect for you. Why would someone like you waste your time with such nitwits?" I always get angry and answer, "I know them. Don't you ever call them nitwits? They are brighter than you. Indeed, they say more profound things. They only lack some sophstication. You ever call them nitwits again and I will track down xx and tell about the time you did this...........
Now I know I was delusional. For most of my life, I missed many things because I see nothing so magical about the Ivy League or big power. If I could retail it, I could make hundreds of millions. Perhaps somethings cannot be retailed. Not even by special education specialists. I am now crying so hard. I care passionately about everyone here -- except the active JW visitors. Nevertheless, perhaps God never wanted to me learn the lessons I learned here. Maybe God was actually telling me that basic simple concepts can never be explained to some people. Heck, the lawyers here tell me you are so stupid and why waste time. My soul said they were wrong. I have moral and ethical duties to you. Read a proper book. Go to a decent college for one day. Any person of any education anywhere knows what you are doing is so wrong. When you defecate on the First Amendment or say something antiSemitic, I no longer care if you are wiped off the face of the earth.
I once thought people here were decent and nice. Yes, I had some class problems. One of the reasons I am where I am is I mix with all classes. No big deal. When destroying everything decent in the world is NO problem because one or two bizarre people who are not interested may read about how bad the WT is, you should be eliminated from the face of the earth.
Never think that the WT lawyers do not have access to the same databases I do. Also, never believe that there are not even more terrifying databases that I do not know about that the WT uses routinely. Once upon a time, any old damn fool could ruin the WT. You are making the WT stronger and bolder. There is no balance precisely because of your acts. I see the law firm's they use to fight their cases. Full of lawyers more brilliant than I am by far. I see the financial advisors, better than I know by far. Don't underestimate your enemy. When one side is so much more powerful than the other, that is the very time when you stop, "I was a researcher for the one organizatin who does research in the worst way in the entire world" and learn to listen to expert advice. The power to restrain the WT already exists. No one who reads BIGOTRY AND STUPIDITY IN NEON FLASHING LIGHTS will risk anything they have to help you.
Well, I now know that I can say what I want to do even among people I respect given massive triggers. Also, I know this is the end for me. There are many more situations worse than the WT. Millions of them. My peers, mentors, etc. would murder me if they knew how long I lingered here. My Lord, I have no trouble explaining things to illiterate prisoners, top organizers at Occupy Now, Latinos in the worst imaginable housing who are illiterate in their native tongue, gays, black sharecroppers. It astounds me. I finally encountered an impossible group for a civil rights leader. Why must it be the one I identify with the most! So many people on earth have it so much worse than you. They cannot read. Mineworkers live in very isolated, moutainous areas-they don't need any outside to tell them what to do. Jehovah's Witnesses must have some special chemical poison that never has an antidote. Attend one meeting and despite your best intentions and education, you are a massive fool for life.
Enjoy each other's stupidity. I wanted to say what I just said ages ago but I was too polite. Sometimes you need to hurt people's feelings and be a bitch. I deplore you that I had to stoop so low. No one may ever agree with me on this site but I already know for a certainty that others do agree with me. don't ever, every trigger a Manhattanite of a certain type. Yes, you know a small section of Brooklyn well. We are powerful beyond whatever is reported in films or TV. We reserve emergency powers for super bad situations. This is beyond a super bad situation.
People here are too polite about the situation on FB. Where I come from, people would be cut off for 60 years for what happened. The person who did it may be your closest friend but you must never speak for 60 years. You see, we have extraordinary power. We may never talk but in an emergency, wow. B/c we have extraordinary power, you never ever exercise it unless it is an extreme emergency. Some people richly deserve their hells.
-
Chaserious
Freedom of religion is not absolute if it can be proved harmful to an indiviual and or society (which this can) than it can be banned so say the supreme court.
This is not the correct test that the Supreme Court uses. The test is whether the law that infringes upon religious practice is a neutral law of general applicability that is not specifically targeted at a particular religion. So to use your analogies, cannibalism and polygamy are illegal regardless of whether they are practiced for a religious reason or not, and the laws were not enacted to target religion - they are generally applicable. On the other hand, cutting off contact with a relative is not generally unlawful, and if a new law were enacted prohibiting shunning, it would arguably be targeted at religion in particular, and not general behavior in society. That's why shunning is legal under the current U.S. legal framework and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
-
Band on the Run
Barb,
I don't ever reveal my entire power. Ivy League Rule Number 1. Who the h do you think you are? Just the delusion that you can give as good as you get is prove that you know NOTHING ABOUT REAL LIFE. Just because you mentioned it, I am now free to call anyone in the universe. Only I will never, ever go after apostates in general. Retarded people are retarded. It is not their choice. Some people have no sense at any level despite being relatively bright.
You are the one adding fuel to the fire! This is the perfect example. In my personal and professiona lives, despite being attacked by the NY riot police, triggered on purpose, I never let myself go as far as I have just now. When I started this thread, I was discussing a general tendency. The only reason I did it with you was because of this specific thread. So many other lawyers here have stopped their personal and professional lives and explained in great detail why posting any old dumb law suit that will be dismissed in a second is the most stupid and egregious mistake.
IN fact, they did it far better than I could do if I devote every second of my life to it. No law prof anywhere could explain so succintly and powerfully to a particular audience why you should stop and should have stopped before you ever started. No, this was only an example in the most generic way of why not to think you are the only MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE about press. DATELINE is not 60 Minutes. You cannot do presidential news conferences. Heck, Obama could not when he first started campaigning. You know NOTHING about press in any place at any time. Further, the only area that I know in your cluelessness about the press is exceeded is any little baby topic in LAW.
I freely admit you know more things about your area of knowledge. Stop competing with me. No matter how hard I try there are vast areas of knowledge and personal experience you have that I will never match. This is no competiton. No showdown is necessary. The very statement that you wrote some articles that any college graduation would find silly does not mean that you can match me on what I know. This is NOT a "I can give as good as I can get" Your very responses prove to me that this is the very time to not hold back. Too much is at stake. Rather than give as you can get" why not celebrate your strengths and my strengths at the same time. Before you r responses that was my intention. Don't mistake typos for a stupid, worthless person. If people hate you, it is because of some minor flaw that you can easily correct so you can do even bigger things and succeed. If someone knows something more than you, celebrate the fact that you are fortunate to know that person. This is precisely what the WT will always win. You have many excellent traits I lack completely. If we combine our traits and knowledge, no one can stop us. This constant, "OH I was at Bethel for x years." I know ALL. Because Barb, in all candor, my own father was there longer. Every uncle was there longer. Also, you mention names. Well, I knew bigger names when I was four years old. They sat at my dining table.
Do I know anything essential in life because my father did this or my grandmother did that at Bethel? NO. Bethel does not translate to real life. You may have excellent research skills compared to every JW. Those skiils and a subway token will get you to Brooklyn. Or if you are in Brooklyn, Coney Island. The two of us as individuals could restrain the WT a lot. Two combined people always succeed more than two alone. You are not able to give as good as you get. The very fact that at your age you could brag about that means you deserve a far worse lecture. If I thought you were evil or without talent, I would not waste the time. You have exceptional knowledge and strengths. Even by any Ivy League, Wall St. or DC standard. Unlike you, I know those standards deeply and broadly. Everyone here does. The fact that separates the winners from the may have wons is only the willingness to not compete and give and get for two seconds.
Perhaps I will be banned. You liberated me. Ban me. There is nothing here worth caring about. People worship you here. You abuse their worship. If you would stop give and getting, you would deserve the greatest respect. You are 98 percent of the way to be an exceptional person in any age, why not go for it? Don't give and get! What does Simon have to stop his day job and his family starve to purchase some expert in Law, JW research, writing, to deliver points for give and get. THIS IS KINDERGATEN. STOP MAKING THE WT LAUGH ITS HEAD OFF. They are wetting their pants.
-
Narcissistic Supply
Gayle, Good post.
-
-
Hummingbird001
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?