Upcoming KM!! Why we are not False Prophets!
by DATA-DOG 100 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
DATA-DOG
Here is a great comment by TD! I am sure that there are more threads about WW1 and WW2 out there, but it's getting late!
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/80229/4/World-War-1-and-1914
" For some 35 years prior to 1914, The Watchtower (now the most widely distributed religious magazine on earth) had been calling attention to 1914 as a year marked in Bible prophecy. These prophecies began to have a remarkable fulfillment in 1914. One of these was Jesus' own prophecy, uttered 1,900 years ago, concerning "the sign" that would appear at the end of the system of things and that would prove that he was invisibly present with kingly power. In answer to his disciples' question about this "sign," he said: "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." (Matthew 24:3, 7, 8) In striking fulfillment, the first of the world wars started in 1914...."
TD's comment:
This is a from of dissemblance known as "Implication through ambiguity." This happens when statements which the target audience regards as true are strung together in a manner that conveys a false impression. What happens is that the frame of reference suddenly shifts in a manner that the audience will not grasp. This has been a favorite technique of politicians for time out of mind.
Let's take the statements one at a time:
A: "For some 35 years prior to 1914, The Watchtower.....had been calling attention to 1914 as a year marked in Bible prophecy."
--True:
(From this point on, the frame of reference shifts from what the Bible Students believed and taught prior to 1914, to what present day Witnesses believe and teach. However since the target audience is ignorant of many of these differences, they fail to grasp the misdirection and come away with the mistaken idea that the events which transpired in 1914 were predicted beforehand.)
B: "These prophecies began to have a remarkable fulfillment in 1914."
--Ambiguous in this context: True only from the standpoint of Jehovah's Witnesses today. False from the standpoint of Bible Students prior to 1914 who believed they began to have a remarkable fullfillment in the late 1800's.
C: "One of these was Jesus' own prophecy, uttered 1,900 years ago, concerning "the sign" that would appear at the end of the system of things and that would prove that he was invisibly present with kingly power."
--Ambiguous in this context: Prior to about 1930 it was taught that the end of the system of things commenced in 1799, that the parousia commenced in 1874 and that Christ received kingly power in 1878. Not one of these were regarded as true about 1914 in the 35 years prior to that date.
D: "In answer to his disciples' question about this "sign," he said: "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress"
--Ambiguous in this context: In the 35 years prior to 1914 it was thought that these things were already under way. The dawn of the millennium in the fall of 1914 was in fact, supposed to put an end to them.
E: In striking fulfillment, the first of the world wars started in 1914....
--Ambiguous in this context. The "Striking Fulfillment" is not a fullfilment of what was preached during the 35 years prior to 1914. It is only a retrospective fulfillment of the end-time prophecies as understood by Jehovah's Witnesses today. None of the prophecies taught during that 35 year period prior to 1914 save the idea that it marked the expiry of the Gentile times are regarded by Jehovah's Witnesses today as true.
Statements B through E are therefore irrelevant to statement A.
-
wasblind
The WTS admits what they claimed about the generation alive in 1914
was indeed a prophecy by the question they posed to help guide the publisher when talkin' to the householder
If Someone Says_______
' How do you know that some future generation won't fit the prophecy even better than this one ?'
You might reply :
'But what would happen today if fulfillment of the sign required that we wait until another all-out war were to break out between the superpowers? Such a war would leave few if any suvivors. So , You see, God's purpose there be suvivors indicates that we are very close to the end of this old system.____Reasoning book page 242
Or you could say :
' Likewise, the pattern of events that began in 1914 will not be repeated in some future generation ( That overlaps I might add)___Reasoning book page 242
.
-
Ding
As I recall, the GB claims to be spirit-directed and Jehovah's sole channel of communication to man in these last days, the WTS being the only organization in all the earth that understands the deep things of God. If you don't submit to their authority and accept every one of their teachings as "the truth," you will be annihilated at Armageddon any day now.
Fallible, humble men, every one of them...
-
Vanderhoven7
marked
-
DATA-DOG
A great comment from Bobcat!
The WT's "predictions" regarding the war also followed key points in the progress of WWII.
"Face the Facts," which predicted a Nazi victory, came out before the Battle of Britain. Germany was successfully sweeping thru continental Europe. I think Face the Facts was delivered (as a talk) and published some time before France fell. So the next few years after Face the Facts came out must have made it seem an on-the-spot prediction.
The prediction that the two sides would fight to a draw came out after Germany lost the Battle of Britain. This battle ended the Nazi westward movement in the war.
As Leolaia said, "the claim made in 1942 that the Allies may win WWII is an about face of what was taught as recently as December 1941." 1941 was known as the "winter of the century." Prior to winter, Germany began what they called "Operation Barbarossa." This was the invasion of the Soviet Union, and it was spectacularly successful until winter bogged down the German advance. December was probably too early in winter to tell how it was going to affect Germany's advance into Russia.
The "Peace - Can It Last?" talk came out in September 1942. But in the spring of 1942, the US won two major sea battles in the Pacific (Coral Sea & Midway).
So, as far as WT war predictions go, we have:
Axis will win (Face the Facts), while Germany is sweeping successfully thru mainland Europe.
Axis & Allies will tie, (up to December 1941), while Axis westward movement is stopped, but eastward movement is in full swing. And Japanese have major victory in Pacific (Pearl Harbor) and are advancing unheeded.
Allies will win, (Peace - Can It Last? Sept. 1942), after Nazi eastward and westward movment is stopped, and Japanese are being pushed back in the Pacific.
As TD said in the opening post, "It would certainly be fair to say that Knorr (and no doubt Rutherford) was an interested observer of current events." That would account for the WT's "predictions."
-
clarity
Many are the inquiries relative to the truths presented in MILLENNIAL DAWN and ZION'S WATCH TOWER, as to whence they came and how they developed to their present symmetrical and beautiful proportions--Were they the results of visions? Did God in any supernatural way grant the solution of these hitherto mysteries of his plan? Are the writers more than ordinary beings? Do they claim any supernatural wisdom or power? or how comes this revelation of God's truth? No, dear friends, I claim nothing of superiority, nor supernatural power, dignity or authority; nor do I aspire to exalt myself in the estimation of my brethren of the household of faith, except in the sense that the Master urged it, saying, "Let him who would be great among you be your servant." (`Matt. 20:27`.) And my position among men of the world and of the nominal church is certainly far from exalted, being "everywhere spoken against." I am fully contented, however, to wait for exaltation until the Lord's due time. (`I Pet. 5:6`.) In the Apostle's words I therefore answer, "Why look ye upon us, as though by our own power we had done these things? We also are men of like passions with yourselves"--of like infirmities and frailties, earnestly striving, by overcoming many besetments, discouragements, etc., to press along the line toward the mark of the prize of our high calling, and claiming only, as a faithful student of the Word of God, to be an index finger, as I have previously expressed it, to help you to trace for yourselves, on the sacred page, the wonderful plan of God--no less wonderful to me, I assure you, than to you, dearly beloved sharers of my faith and joy.
No, the truths I present, as God's mouthpiece, were not revealed in visions or dreams, nor by God's audible voice, nor all at once, but gradually, especially since 1870, and particularly since 1880. Neither is this clear unfolding of truth due to any human ingenuity or acuteness of perception, but to the simple fact that God's due time has come; and if I did not speak, and no other agent could be found, the very stones would cry out.
-
DATA-DOG
Thank you, Blondie!!
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/115266/1/Witnesses-cannot-refute-the-real-TRUTH
In 1942, Nathan Knorr gave the speach 'Peace, can it last?'. Using Revelation chapter 17, he predicted that the League of Nations would rise again. He specifically said that this new organization would rise after WWII. This came true.In January of 1942, the Declaration of the United Nations was set up. http://www.civicwebs.com/cwvlib/constitutions/un/e_united_nations_declaration_1942.htm
Declaration by the United Nations
January 1, 1942
A Joint Declaration by the United States, the United Kingdom, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, China, Australia, Belgium, Canada, Costa Rica, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, India, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Poland, South Africa, Yugoslavia
The Governments signatory hereto,
Having subscribed to a common program of purposes and principles embodied in the Joint Declaration of the President of the United States of America and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland dated August 14, 1941, known as the Atlantic Charter.
Being convinced that complete victory over their enemies is essential to defend life, liberty, independence and religious freedom, and to preserve human rights and justice in their own lands as well as in other lands, and that they are now engaged in a common struggle against savage and brutal forces seeking to subjugate the world,
DECLARE:
(1) Each Government pledges itself to employ its full resources, military or economic, against those members of the Tripartite Pact:and its adherents with which such government is at war.
(2) Each Government pledges itself to cooperate with the Governments signatory hereto and not to make a separate armistice or peace with the enemies.
The foregoing declaration may be adhered to by other nations which are, or which may be, rendering material assistance and contributions in the struggle for victory over Hitlerism.
Done at Washington
January First, 1942
[The signatories to the Declaration by United Nations are as listed above.]
The adherents to the Declaration by United Nations, together with the date of communication of adherence, are as follows:
Mexico June 5, 1942 Peru Feb. 11, 1945 Philippines June 10, 1942 Chile Feb. 12, 1945 Ethiopia July 28, 1942 Paraguay Feb. 12, 1945 Iraq Jan. 16, 1943 Venezuela Feb. 16, 1945 Brazil Feb. 8, 1943 Uruguay Feb. 23, 1945 Bolivia Apr. 27, 1943 Turkey Feb. 24, 1945 Iran Sept. 10, 1943 Egypt Feb. 27, 1945 Colombia Dec. 22, 1943 Saudi Arabia Mar. 1, 1945 Liberia Feb. 26, 1944 Lebanon Mar. 1, 1945 France Dec. 26, 1944 Syria Mar. 1, 1945 Ecuador Feb. 7, 1945 All Nathan had to do was read the paper. He gave is talk on much later in 1942.
*** w60 7/15 p. 444 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***
Yes, the "faithful and discreet slave" was awake to the coming of 1914. In 1942 the "faithful and discreet slave" guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up.
Yet Rutherford predicted that:
The indisputable facts are that the Roman Catholic Hierarchy has stooped wholly to political methods to gain control of the world,.... These facts, which cannot be disputed, disclose the Roman Catholic Hierarchy's determination to act as a kind of spiritual super-government over the dictators of the world, forming a part of the monstrosity,... Now Germany is in an alliance with the Papacy, and Great Britain is rapidly moving in that direction. The United States of America, once the bulwark of democracy, is all set to become a part of the totalitarian rule. [13] Thus the indisputable facts are, that there is now in the earth Satan's dictatorial monstrosity,... that such totalitarian, arbitrary rule is fully supported by the Hierarchy... [14] When the totalitarian Catholic combine gains control of the British Isles, which it is certain to do, then all the liberties of the people will be at an end.... What will be the condition when all nations become totalitarian?[15] The giant Goliath,... pictured the totalitarian Hierarchy combine that is now bluffing all nations with the determination of forcing them to yield to dictatorial rule.... David engaged the giant in combat and slew him, thus disclosing what is now in progress and what God through Christ Jesus, the antitypical David, will do to the totalitarian combine at Armageddon. Let the Hierarchy, including the pope, together with all others that form the totalitarian, dictatorial rule, the representatives of which are now listening to this speech,... now take notice. To such opponents we now say: "Today you stand before the judgment seat of Christ,... the Lord's final judgment has been entered against you and you are going to die. You... have permitted the Devil to gather you to Armageddon, the battle of the great day of God Almighty. (Revelation 16: 13-16) The final showdown has come.... At the battle of Armageddon Christ Jesus, leading his invincible army, will slay you and give your dead carcasses to the wild beasts of the earth,... [16] The totalitarian combine is going to get control of England and America. You cannot prevent it. Do not try. [17] 13. Rutherford, J. F., Face the Facts, 1938, p. 16. 14. Ibid., p. 17. 15. Ibid., pp. 20, 21. 16. Ibid., pp. 23, 24. 17. Ibid., p. 27. http://www.premier1.net/~raines/armageddon.html
-
DATA-DOG
ADCMS posted this.
*** g73 10/8 p. 17 Mankind at the Crossroads by 1914-Why? ***
The Turning Point Foreseen
But did you know that, long before 1914-in fact, more than a quarter of a century before-
persons were pointing ahead to that year as one to be of great significance for all mankind? History shows that sincere Bible students, known today as Jehovah's witnesses, did just that. Note this:
Back on August 30, 1914, the New York World, in its magazine section, said, "The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy." It went on to state:
"For a quarter of a century past, through preachers and through press, the 'International Bible Students' [Jehovah's witnesses] . . . have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914.
"'Look out for 1914!' has been the cry of the hundreds of travelling evangelists who, representing this strange creed, have gone up and down the country enunciating the doctrine that 'the Kingdom of God is at hand.'"
What did Russell actually "prophesy"?
"True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved . In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914 ."Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is At Hand (1889) pp.99, 101
"In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions."(The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
"Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
Rather than a mere "turning point", Russell was predicting Armageddon would occur in 1914.
The WT has often quoted the August 1914 "World" magazines comments as "proof" that Jehovah directed Russell to proclaim what would happen in 1914, and that Russell's 'predictions' happened just as he said they would. In fact, NOTHING Russell predicted for 1914 actually occurred.
This is a bald-facted WT lie!! Watch the following video to see what that "World" magazine article actually said and how WT has deceptively cherry-picked and edited the article to hide the truth. The specific reference begins at the 3:30 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1puUP2vN7A&feature=player_embedded
-
DATA-DOG
Again, from the Reasoning book.
" Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets."
Perhaps individual members do not, but what about the leadership? What do they teach?
WT 5/15/1955
Jehovah's Channel of Communication
THE WORD "CHANNEL"
" In connection with literal water the word "channel" is used to refer to a waterway, a watercourse or an established stream of water. In a larger sense the word "channel" is used to describe a means of conduction, a course into which something may be directed, a route through which anything passes or progresses. In this latter, larger way the word "channel" is appropriately used with reference to Jehovah's age-old method of communication with his servants."
" Be it noted, however, that from this heavenly Fountain source there is only one channel of flow."
" Here again there are not many lines of flow to truth, but a single set channel of communication is emphasized."
EARTHLY END OF COMMUNICATION LINE
" From the many recorded experiences we next observe that the official "Word" transmits the message either by means of an angelic messenger who appears face to face or by the use of God's holy spirit to inspire the next agent in the line of communication. On special occasions even the Word himself might appear in a face-to-face interview with the next agent. Who, generally, is that next agent? For supernatural communications that reach the earth the agent (generally a human, although once the ass of Balaam was used) is referred to Biblically as a prophet if he is a male servant of God or a prophetess if a woman. The prophet, in turn, speaks out the communication as God's spokesman on earth. He publishes it to the many whom God intends to hear it if other than a single person is being specifically addressed. The prophet then becomes the immediate earthly channel through which the waters of lifegiving truth are conveyed to earth's thirsting residents.
Thus Jehovah's earthly channel of communication is identified. The earthly channel is either a prophet or a collective prophetlike organization."
WT 5/15/1955
Christian Channel of communication
PREPARATION OF PROPHETICAL ORGANIZATION
" Like the prophets Noah, Elijah, Elisha and John the Baptist, Jesus, the Prophet, gathered disciples around him and trained them to become preachers. However, unlike these others he was preparing these disciples to become a nucleus around which a continuous prophetical organization, a channel of communication, would be established."
" Jesus also said: "A prophet is not unhonored except in his native territory and in his own house." This, too, Jesus' followers have experienced as members of his Christian prophetlike organization.-Matt. 10:40-42; 13:57, NW."
" Just as no individual since Jesus' day has been singled out in the fulfillment of Bible prophecies, so no single individual has comprised God's special prophet since Jesus, the Great Prophet. "
"This power is organizational in scope and applies to no one man, as claimed by the Catholic Church in saying that this authority is vested in the one man, the pope.-Matt. 18:18, NW."
PROPHETICAL ORGANIZATION ESTABLISHED/EARLY UNCLEAR VIEWS NO DETRACTION
" In fact, the progression of revealed Bible truths channeled in the line of communication through the anointed Christians brought startling information even to angels. "This was to the end that now to the governments and the authorities in the heavenly places there might be made known through the congregation the greatly diversified wisdom of God."
TWELVE REQUIREMENTS FOR CHRISTIAN CHANNEL TODAY
" First, the congregation of Christ of the twentieth century must know what the name of its God is as revealed by Jesus to his early disciples and must become witnesses of this majestic name even as were the prophets of old, Jesus and the first-century Christians. Only the remnant of Jehovah's anointed witnesses and their companions today have a rich understanding of the divine name JEHOVAH and accordingly are endeavoring to live up to this name as His witnesses.-Isa. 43:12; John 17:6, 11, 26; Acts 15:14
[ I wanted to throw this in. Notice the WTBTS fails immediately in step #1]. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/253299/1/ANOTHER-DISHONEST-QUOTE-FROM-CHRISTS-BROTHERS
" Tenth, the congregation of Christ must today follow its first-century pattern by receiving progressive understandings of Bible prophecies which unfold further majestic purposes of the Living God and which new light of truth must be published impartially the world over by God's prophetlike organization. Only the remnant of Jehovah's anointed witnesses and their companions "do not treat prophesyings with contempt" but publish their fulfillments as they become clear, in their Bible publications.-1 Thess. 5:20; Rev. 11:3, 4, NW. "
KEEP IN CLOSE TOUCH WITH CHANNEL
" The evidences, therefore, are overwhelming that the anointed Christian remnant among Jehovah's witnesses today comprise the collective channel of communication. An abundance of additional detailed facts is being published in the series of articles in The Watchtower on the history of Jehovah's witnesses."
" An official mouthpiece for this "slave" class is the Watchtower magazine, now in its seventy-sixth year of publication. This magazine makes no claim of inspiration but is guided by the inspired principles and prophecies recorded in the sacred Bible due for progressive fulfillment today. By means of this singular channel of reliable spiritual guidance all sincere, honest persons who love righteousness are being directed toward the "perfect day" in the post-Armageddon new world. You are invited to advance along with the anointed remnant from one God-directed progressive spiritual position to another in fulfillment of the promise: "The path of the righteous is as the dawning light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day."-Prov. 4:18, AS.
" 21 And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him."
DD