Thank you Ablebodiedman, for citing that old WT article. I cant wait to use it on my MIL who is such a clueless JW that she didn't believe me when I told her the baptismal vows were changed in the 80's. I told her that "you and I didn't dedicate ourselves to an organization when we were baptized but rather to Jehovah and his son. Right? She agreed. I said when ******* (my daughter)got baptized, the society had changed to include their ORGANIZATION!. She didn't believe me and furthur insulted me by saying "I'd have to see THAT in writing." Can someone tell where the NU(80's) baptism vows are printed??? Thanks!
"You knew what the consequences were when YOU decided to leave The Truth. This is YOUR decision and the outcome is YOUR responsibility."
by nicolaou 55 Replies latest social family
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ablebodiedman
w85 6/1 p. 30 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication
Likewise this year many thousands are contemplating the step of baptism during the "Integrity Keepers" Convention that will be held in many locations worldwide. Before reaching this point of baptism, all candidates have carefully reviewed with congregation elders the Bible’s principal doctrines and guidelines for Christian conduct to make sure they really qualify for baptism. Thus the decision to be baptized is by no means a sudden emotional reaction. Rather, each one has ‘proved for himself the good and acceptable and perfect will of God’ and wishes to submit to that will.—Romans 12:2.
At the close of the convention baptism talk, the baptism candidates will be in position to answer with depth of understanding and heartfelt appreciation two simple questions that serve to confirm that they recognize the implications of following Christ’s example. The first question is:
On
the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his
will?
The second is:
Do
you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed
organization?
Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism.
and 4 years later:
w89 1/15 p. 15 How Baptism Can Save Us
The entire baptismal arrangement, including this public expression of faith, is essential for salvation.
abe
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Scully
The wife of an abusive husband may "know the consequences" of trying to leave him. He may have "promised" to make her sorry for abandoning him. He may have told her that he would tell everyone they know that she went crazy. He may have told her that he would turn their children against her. He may have told her that she would never be able to make it without him, that without him she is nothing, and that she has nowhere else to go.
The fact that she "knows the consequences" doesn't make him, or a belief system that behaves like him, any less abusive, or any less in the wrong.
The Watchtower behaves just like an abusive spouse, trying to keep their abused mate to stay in a horrible and untenable relationship:
They call us "mentally diseased" when we leave.
They turn our friends and relatives against us.
They tell us that when we leave, we are like "dogs returning to our own vomit", that our life will spiral into a nightmarish existence.
They say "Where else can you go?"
We went into a relationship based on promises of love, respect and honesty, and when we discovered the relationship was based on us doing all the giving and the WTS doing all the taking, that we were expected to obey without question and respect without having respect given in return, and that everything we were taught was a LIE, that relationship became null and void.
Walking away from abuse is an incredibly difficult thing to do, even when you know it's the right thing to do. Battered women are at their most vulnerable when they attempt to leave the relationship - that's when most intimate partner murders occur. That's when we can expect to be treated with the most violent reactions too - when we are trying to leave the JWs behind.
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Simon
Basically, you are disfellowshipped for not believing what they teach at a specific instance in time.
If you believed something before they did? Out.
If you still want to believe the old thing they believed? Out.
But really, what they and you believe doesn't matter at all. It's really all about power and control. What they want is for you to OBEY and be compliant. THAT is what get's the GB stamp of approval.
Most JWs couldn't describe their current beliefs in detail beyond vague and common notions like "Jesus is God's son and died for our sins". What they do know is that "the GB are in charge and must be obeyed".
Beyond the basic Christianity doctrines there is little left of the religion that existed even when I was baptized and I'm not that old (no, really). So, what are the consequences for them of changing the beliefs? None at all? Doesn't seem fair does it ... they don't even get to lose a little credibility because pointing out the changes is also against their rules. Out.
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LoisLane looking for Superman
Scully..................... I haven't read any of this thread. But I just clicked on this page and came to your comment. You are 100% correct when you liken the abuse of JW wives, with the abuse we get as smartened up JW's that decide we don't want to be lied to by 8 GB members and walk out. They do not like that loss of control.................. When I read C of C, the scales fell from my eyes, and I then understood, The WatchTower was just a pushy bully, that abused you, would say you couldn't do anything right, that you couldn't make it on your own, AND they kept you off balance by continuing changing their/the rules.............. Not Fair. When something is not fair, it is abuse........ Just Lois
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Apognophos
I still think AnnOMaly's YouTube clip on page 2 summed up the entire issue perfectly.