Jehovah's Witness boy fights court for right to die (page 5)

besty

SBF is correct - the title of the thread is inaccurate.

If the basis of the boys appeal to the Judge is one based on maturity, then he can stand being asked some awkward questions for the appeal judge to deliver a further considered opinion.

eg

Does your religion positively encourage you to research the doctrinal context of their blood ban using non-Watchtower references?

Have you cross-referenced 3rd party quotations used by the Watchtower to support the medical reasons for avoiding blood products in their original context? Do the authors of those quotations support the Watchower position on blood?

slimboyfat

In my view autonomy in matters relating one's own body is a very important principle, not to be disguarded lightly. In attempting to oppose the Watchtower's brand of tyranny, don't be too quick to seek refuge in another potential source of tyranny, that of the state. A society in which the state has the power to tell 17 year olds what will and will not be done to their bodies takes on a sinister aspect.

Why should a patient have to prove that they understand doctrine or history in order to be judged qualified to make decisions about their own body? Make sure he is not being coerced by all means, but quiz him about the merits of Watchtower referencing methods? I don't think that's a helpful intervention.

besty

"Make sure he is not being coerced by all means"

By all means? meaning what?

Is it coercion to be raised from birth in a high control new religious movement <avoids c-word>?

In any case the appeal judges have agreed:

"The interest of the state is in keeping him alive until that time, after which he will be free to make his own decisions as to medical treatment."

slimboyfat

Allow him to express his wishes when family and other believers are not around.

I would not describe socialization in a high control group from birth as coercion in itself.

The boy is 17 years old, that is pretty old to be told by the state that you should have no control over your own body in my view. It's a pretty small step from that to saying that even adults who were brought up as Witnesses cannot make a "free choice" and should be forced to have a transfusion. Would anyone on the forum advocate that? Apart from anything else I simply wonder how in practice you give a transfusion to 17 year old who does not want one. Is he to be sedated, physically restrained or what? Just what right does the state have to do that to anyone?

Splash

Also reported in the UK Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10338656/Jehovahs-Witness-teenager-loses-bid-to-refuse-blood-transfusion.html

wallsofjericho

my father was on the Hospital Liaison Committee, telling me all the biased information that he was receiving from the Watchtower about how blood causes people to die, and blood has not been proven to have saved a single life.

It pisses me off to no end when JW's try to make a medical argument against blood when their position has NOTHING to do with medicine or health for that matter.

JW's refuse blood for one reason only - because the GB tells them God will kill them at Armageddon if they do

THAT'S IT!

they will avoid the real issue to no end and spend hours talking about AIDS or Hepatitis or some study that says blood weakens you for up to the first 12 hours so it actually does more harm than good blah blah blah

STOP HIDING YOUR BLIND OBEDIENCE TO THE GB BEHIND MEDICINE!!!

Walk in the courtroom and say what you believe:

"The watchtower is the sole channel of truth and are used by Jehovah God to teach the bible to true christians since we are incapable of understanding the bible without their help and they told me that God said I am not allowed to give my children blood even if it means they will die so please let my son die so Jehovah won't kill me at Armageddon"

besty

@SBF

I would not describe socialization in a high control group from birth as coercion in itself.

seriously?

The threat of pissing of the Almighty and losing all your friends and family is not coercion?

slimboyfat

Well if that counts as coercion, since every baptised Witness is subject to disfellowshipping, are all JWs are "coerced" to refuse blood? On that basis should all JW adults also be forced to accept blood? I don't think that's a road ex-JWs want to go down or should be advocating.

Plus I really do wonder about the practicality of forcing a 17 year old to take blood. Does anyone know how the ruling is going to be enforced? Are we comfortable with the use of force by the state if it comes to that?

wallsofjericho

SLIMBOYFAT makes a valid arguement. At 17 what right does the state have to "force" you to do anything that should be a personal choice?

The problem is, that choice is based on false understanding after years of mental conditioning.

Ultimately the child has the right to decide his/her fate, however, the state should make sure the that child has a supportive environment without the influence of parents or elders, etc. to make that choice without coercion.

After that, there is nothing we can do other than educate people about cults and persuavive coercion so they can make informed decisions.

I for one, want to make my own medical decisions, If I don't want a medication that has side effects I don't desire then I have the right to refuse, if I want to allow myself to die rather than be on life support then I have the right to choose. I can't imagine being forced to take medicine or treatment that I as an adult, do not want.

slimboyfat

Well that's where agreement breaks down. I don't believe there is any such thing as "false understanding", just different understandings.

Jehovah's Witness boy fights court for right to die

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