I came across this video that argues science has made a more significant contribution to knowledge and mankind's wellbeing than religion. It's obviously wrong about the earth not being flat though, as it takes no account of perspectivism.
When did Theology Last add something to Human Knowledge?
by cofty 92 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Phizzy
Is the news that the Earth is flat,(and thanks for that SBF), is that a Fact ?
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designs
Author Joyce Appleby argues that Columbus's epic voyage was in defiance of a moribund Catholic church. A Church so afraid of new ideas and advances in science it brought Medieval Europe to a halt. Following Columbus was Francis Bacon who opened a new age of collecting specimens from throughout the world and challenging not only the Catholic church but Noah's Ark- no South American Llamas on the Ark.
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adamah
SBF said-
It's obviously wrong about the earth not being flat though, as it takes no account of perspectivism.
It's great that you're worried about the perspective of the many non-homo sapien species with whom we share the Planet, as you're always reminding everyone about the perspective of earthworms, insects, birds, viruses, etc. The fact is, they MAY or MAY NOT perceive the Earth the same as we do, or even be aware of the issue: we just don't KNOW for sure HOW they perceive the World, or WHAT they "think" (let alone IF viruses "think" at all). So the fact is, your statement above is incorrect, as you claim a level of certainty in what we KNOW, i.e. it's not "obviously wrong" as you claim: that's an inference you've drawn.
Scientists actually are studying the brain wave activity of canines in MRIs to ascertain their emotions:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/opinion/sunday/dogs-are-people-too.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
(maybe they can examine their brain wave activity when the canines are asked the question of whether they perceive the Earth as flat or as a sphere?)
HOWEVER, I suspect many of your fellow human participants would find it more useful if you simply accepted the presupposition that ALL online forums are for sharing concepts amongst homo sapiens, and hence there reasonably are no earthworms or canines posting to online opinions (AFAIK, my dog is unable to read, let alone post his thoughts; he tries, but just cannot make it past the complicated registration process).
Adam
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slimboyfat
Joyce Appleby has an interesting perspective on postmodern theory.
adamah I never mentioned viruses or most of the other things you mentioned. Worm eye view is an expression. Humans can look at the same thing differently too. Plus if there were no humans at all would the earth cease to be round from a certain perspective?
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cofty
No
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slimboyfat
Well obviously. Neither has it stopped being flat from a certain perspective either.
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Terry
Science deals with NATURE (what actually exists).
Theology deals with Supernature (what is imagined to exist and is outside of nature.)
Honestly, innovators and thinkers "outside the box" of normality have always been excluded from society.
In agrarian society, doing the same thing in exactly the same way meant the difference between life and death.
If you change methodology and the crops don't arrive in time for winter--you don't get another shot. You starve!
So, people with novel thinking, innovation and advanced theories could not be tolerated. They were pushed out.
Ideas about pleasing God are no different.
In primitive societies, suffering a drought was suffering the possibility of starvation.
Shaman danced to bring rain. The kept at it, too! They danced and danced and danced...
If rain finally came--the religion of the Shaman was "proved true." If not, everybody died anyway.
Look at all the rules attached to Israel's worship process!
What happened to somebody who failed to observe the laws?
No innovations allowed!
Science developed on the fringe, on the outskirts and in the margins until the successes were not to be ignored.
All along, however, great strides were condemned by religion because religion is AUTHORITY and not discovery.
Theology was an imitation of Greek logic and philosophy.
Aquinas and Augustine copied the methodology of pagan Greek genius and adapted it for nonsensical Church Law.
The Catholic Church would have no theology of any stature were it not for Plato and Aristotle filtered through Aquinas and Augustine.
Theology does NOTHING to add to human knowledge because it is fixed, rigid, moribund and illogical.
Look in the theocracy of Muslim countries where women are murdered and disfigured and swallowed in clothing and subsumed by a dominant male culture.
Not that long ago you are looking at Christianity when you look at the Muslim faith today!
Judaism has emerged only a bit through education and technology, yet, its woes are due to the fundamentalist religious branch of zealots who actually think
the Supreme Being gave them real estate belonging only to them!
Theology is a substitute for real knowledge and an utter waste of time.
Believe me, I know; I wasted my youth learning the "nothing" the Watch Tower shaman passed off as the only Truth worth knowing.
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adamah
SBF said-
Well obviously. Neither has it stopped being flat from a certain perspective either.
You're missing the point, since you cannot actually KNOW that the "certain perspective" you're arguing for actually exists, yet you still persist in making knowledge claims that it does (ironic, as you've also made the contradictory claim that we cannot know anything for certain, as well?).
It stands to reason that it probably doesn't actually matter to worms what shape the World is, since they live IN terra firma. They don't need to navigate great distances, fly though air at 20,000 ft, build satellites that can be placed into orbit, travel to other planets, etc. If you WERE able to communicate with worms, they'd probably look at you like you were nuts, as the question would be meaningless to their entire realm of existence.
My point is that you should contain the pseudo-intellectual stuff, since to many it's only one-step removed from the equally-pointless tiresome theological debates of arguing how many angels can dance on the heads of pins.
As one of the basic presuppositions, it's helpful to assume that the discussion threads on forums are limited to the perspective(s) of homo sapiens, and THEN if the topic arises where it seems on-topic to consider the viewpoint of other organisms on the Planet, you can bring it up. Clearly the Earth being flat IS possible for homo sapiens, but aside from those cranks over in the Flat Earth Society, MOST people can examine the evidence to move beyond it and accept that the Earth is a spheroid oblate globe.
Otherwise, you risk coming off as a boorish philosophical dweeb who wants to hijack discussions in order to mire discussions in the mud of doubts and nihilism, which is likely done to excuse your own unwillingness to confront very-real pressing concerns of the day and age.
Adam
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cofty
"Otherwise, you risk coming off as a boorish philosophical dweeb who wants to hijack discussions in order to mire discussions in the mud of doubts and nihilism, which is likely done to excuse your own unwillingness to confront very-real pressing concerns of the day and age."
Hold on I want to write that down....