So are Republicans now openly terrorists?

by Simon 369 Replies latest social current

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  Simon

  Pharmaceuticals build their entire business model on coming up with a unique product that can only be supplied by them... until the patent expires. They intend to make up their research and compliance costs and more in that short window of time. This would be an example of inelastic demand where there are no competitors, no?

  They also try to find sneaky ways to extend their patents (by making minor changes to drugs) and also block generics being made available. For all the talk of medicine and treatment they are there to make profit, not cure people. That just happens to be a side-effect of the industry they are in.

  It also means that treatments for rare and exotic diseases are not pursued as aggressively, as there simply isn't a market.

  Free market, supply and demand may cause unacceptable gaps in service delivery.

  True, the same things happen with cell phone coverage and bus services - everyone wants to provide services to a lucrative city but not regional areas and that is where you need government to step in and provide regulation to ensure coverage and fair prices.

  Yes, people in the country are subsidised by people in cities - for phones, cable, utilities, roads etc...

  Why should healthcare be excluded from a system that works for less important things?
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  jgnat

  MMM, where did I say scrap the patent system? I suggest the patent pool, exactly what the speaker is promoting.

  The Vlog brothers always talk fast. They have a self-imposed limit of five minutes, and they cram in as much as they can. They are also factual.

  I fail to see how you have concluded from all this that too much government intervention has led to rising prices. Canada has loads more government intervention, and our costs are lower. As does Europe. As the brother says so well, it's the loaded gun to your head - inelastic demand - that leads to high prices.
• 

  Glander

  but... not regional areas and that is where you need government to step in and provide regulation to ensure coverage and fair prices.

  Canada has many 'regional areas'. What is available for a village in, say, rural Manitoba?
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  jgnat

  I'll pick a rural area I know better. Grande Cache, population 6,000, is 200 kms from the next town. It is remote. It is rural. It is small. We have power (deregulated), water (municipal), sewer (municipal), telephone (regulated (CRTC) one line and running out of numbers), and one cell phone tower (regulated, CRTC). Newspaper distribution (private) is dropping. No deliveries on weekends.

  We have a few doctors, and experiencing our first shortage in years. Wait time (other than emergency) is about a month. We have a hospital but no surgery. People requiring emergency surgery are airlifted out, and expecting mothers have to "book" their deliveries and hope nature lines up with their best-laid plans. Medical care all falls under Alberta Health Services (provincial). All medical care is "free", including the airlifts.

  There are mobile screening units that visit annually; a breast cancer screening unit (Alberta Health Services) and a diabetes unit (University of Alberta program, research funding). All "free".

  Canadians pay full fee for pharmaceuticals, unless they are under a plan (Semi-Private such as Blue Cross or an employer sponsored insurance program). I am pretty sure we get more generics than in the US, and in fact, our insurance plans will insist on the generic if available.

  We pay full fee for optometric and dental, similar to the pharmaceutical.

  There is a pharmacy, dentist, and chiropractor in town. We have to go to a larger centre to see an optometrist.

  I forgot, fire hall (municipal), and RCMP (federal under contract from the town).
• 

  jgnat

  Here's another idea to reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals.

  http://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_pogge_medicine_for_the_99_percent.html

  http://healthimpactfund.org/

  This speaker explains how the market system results in higher costs. Right now pharmaceutical companies waste a lot of money on marketing, patent registration, defending themselves against generics, and suing each other.
• 

  BizzyBee

  http://www.dailykos.com/

  Good commentary from Bill Moyers.
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  nonjwspouse

  If so many "non essentials" like cancer treaatment for children, or leaving roads open, or monuments open, why is the golf course at Camp David remining open?

  But, not to worry, while the American people are adversely effected by the closing of privately funded businesses, monuments, and memorials around the country, the President can still enjoy some R&R at his favorite golf courses.

  “However, the President’s golf course remains open. But he said that’s because the golf course is paid for by private funds. Wait a minute. So is the World War II Memorial. So is the farm. So is the restaurant. So is the damn road that you just put cones on,”
• 

  BizzyBee

  the President’s golf course remains open.

  Looks like you and Glenn Beck are the only two people who think this is worthy of comment.
• 

  sammielee24

  Glen Beck wasn't the only media carrying it - there were others including some entertainment channels - sammieswife

  --

  President Obama has visited the Navy-run presidential retreat Camp David in central Maryland only 32 times, but it is being kept open during the government shutdown for his entertainment and security at the same time the Pentagon is cutting sports coverage to hundreds of thousands of troops around the world.

  A phone call to the retreat found it open, confirming a TMZ report.

  Camp David is one of the most highly secure areas in the nation and provides the president with a safe haven. The president has been known to shoot skeet at Camp David, which he most recently used for his 52nd birthday, according to CBS White House Correspondent Mark Knoller.

  Obama has spent just 78 days at the retreat, choosing instead to spend his weekends in Washington and hitting military golf courses, which are also being kept open during the government shutdown.

  In the meantime, overseas troops who typically look forward to watching NFL games and the baseball playoffs provided by the American Forces Network, will get little if any service due to the shutdown. A notice on the AFN page reads:

  “GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN. Due to the government shutdown, the Defense Department can only provide limited overseas television, radio, print and web services.”

  The virtual elimination of sports coverage was noticed by the New England Sports Network, co-owned by the Boston Red Sox and Boston Bruins. “AFN provides a form of escape for many troops stationed around the world. Let's hope the popular station gets back on the air soon,” they reported.

  Paul Bedard, The Washington Examiner
• 

  MeanMrMustard

  jgnat,

  You wrote:

  MMM, where did I say scrap the patent system? I suggest the patent pool, exactly what the speaker is promoting.

  The Vlog brothers always talk fast. They have a self-imposed limit of five minutes, and they cram in as much as they can. They are also factual.

  I fail to see how you have concluded from all this that too much government intervention has led to rising prices. Canada has loads more government intervention, and our costs are lower. As does Europe. As the brother says so well, it's the loaded gun to your head - inelastic demand - that leads to high prices.

  Oh, I wasn't suggesting that you said it. I said it, but I was asking your opinion based upon perceived common ground: mainly that patent law causes a lot of issues. And don't like the idea of patents for more than medical reasons. Since I deal in computer science, I am reminded of the $200 million patent infringment case against Microsoft back in 2009 (I think it was 2009). They were hit hard just because some small company came up with a way of organizing documents via custom XML (something I thought would clearly be in the public domain). It seems just flat out dumb for it not to be. But there you go, MS has to pay $200 million (actually, I think it was more after the appeal). I was left thinking, "Wait wait.. I've used custom XML in some of my file formats, letting users link around files I've creates with XML markup... does that mean I'm in violation?" (not that I made enough money for i4i (company that sued MS) to be interested in me. Or how about the 2000 case from British Telecommunications - attempting to collect on their patent claim to the hyperlink. Yes, the plain ol' internet hyperlink. More in the area of health, I read a few interesting articles (don't have the links right now, but I could find them) about the invention of the MRI. Raymond Damadian was a smart guy, but he sucked at actually building machines around his invention. General Electric was trying to produce one, for much less, and it was much more reliable. There was another company trying to produce an MRI machine (can't rememeber the name right now). Sensing his competition was about to produce a better machine, he appealed to patent law and shut the entire bunch down. And so, we get what we get... expensive MRIs for years upon years.

  The patent pool is fine, but if the patent laws were abolished it would be even better. The market would most likely turn Big Pharma into a lot of tiny pharma's. The best pay day would be to try to invent and enter into contracts with producers of drugs for a percentage of sale. That would probably also cause more pharmas to concentrate on the drugs needed for the greater population, instead of just the rich.

  As I have stated with DogGone, I don't think inelastic demand in and of itself is a "gun to the head." It leads to high prices if there's no consumer choice, as your example of Big Pharma illustrates - a goverment created monopoly.

  MMM