brazen conduct, dissensions

by hoser 40 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  DesirousOfChange

  Yes you could be disfellowshipped for loose conduct and uncleanness, it's in the elders' book. I don't think the phrase "brazen conduct" is a terribly meaningful change in itself.

  I don't think you could be DFd for uncleanness prior to the re-written book in 2010. It was counsel only. Loose Conduct required multiple counseling (and suggested even a marking talk) before DFing could apply. Which meant that once counseled, the "guilty party" had to commit get caught at the same "sin" again before DFing action could be taken.

  If you see different in the OLD Sheparding Book, cite the page number, please.

  Doc
• 

  Glander

  I've always associated the word "brazen" with the word "hussy".

  My grandmother used the words together on occasion and I was always wondering why Sister So-and-So was a "Brazen hussy". When I saw her at the KH I would look at her very closely. All I noticed was that she had a plump cleavage.
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  steve2

  Brazen conduct conjures up wildly disturbing images of defiant sexual lasciviousness.

  I assume therefore it does not include those who engage in sexual conduct in private, timid and self-hating ways?
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  LisaRose

  I thought Brazen conduct meant someone who is pushing the limits and has an unrepentant attitude about it. It seemed to be a catchall label allowing the elders to pretty much disfellowshipped any one the didn't like. I must be wrong though, as no one else seems to follow that interpretation.
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  Simon

  I think of brazen as in "You brazen hussy!" (out of My Fair Lady)

  I guess it allows them to use the scripture to beat anyone just for standing up to them.

  Soon they will make asking questions a sin.
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  EndofMysteries

  If you don't agree with something the society teaches, or can't accept 'their' interpretation of a scripture, they will call that brazen conduct and DF you. Again has nothing to do w/ the original meaning, else why change it from loose conduct?
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  Oubliette

  - SBF: Yes you could be disfellowshipped for loose conduct and uncleanness, it's in the elders' book. I don't think the phrase "brazen conduct" is a terribly meaningful change in itself.

  With all due respect, I disagree. The term "brazen conduct" implies a defiant attitude that is not implicie in either "loose conduct" or "uncleanness." The elders have been instructed to understand these three terms this way. (I distinctly recall this point being not too subtly hammered home at one of our elders' schools 10-ish years ago).

  This could be good, because now a R&F JW will only be subject to sanctions if they are deemed to have a "defiant attitude" as opposed to engaging in "loose conduct" without such an attitude, but due to human weakness.

  On the other hand, it could be bad because many elders have in "in the Truth" so long that they just KNOW that anyone that engages in "loose conduct" or "uncleanness" has committed a sin worthy of judicial action and now they will automatically deem it as "brazen conduct" because the phrase replaces the familiar one.

  Being an optimist tempered with 30+ years experience as a JW I expect more of the latter than the former.

  We shall see what we shall see.
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  Oubliette

  - Simon: Soon they will make asking questions a sin.

  It already is.
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  laverite

  Simon wrote: " Soon they will make asking questions a sin."

  Isn't it pretty much a sin already? If someone is questioning...they are liable to be labelled 'apostate.'
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  mrhhome

  Wow. Did they really use brazen? In modern American context, the word does not have a strictly sexual connotation. At a minimum, this was sloppy